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[Music]

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this week we have two co-hosts for the

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price of one and the price of one is

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zero we don't charge for the show not

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yet anyway some people have been

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suggesting that by the way but instead

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of actually giving away a free show with

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commercials because that's how you pay

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the bills we charge for the show now I

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don't know about you but I kind of think

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that I wouldn't ask anybody to pay for a

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radio show because you know everybody

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has only so much money to spend look we

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have to have commercials if you don't

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like the commercials you do what you do

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on your DVRs on your TV sets you

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fast-forward the co-hosts are Chris

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O'Brien and Nicholas Redfern who's

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rejoining us after a short absence and

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he'll tell us what he's been up to in a

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few moments he has a book out by the way

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called the NASA conspiracies and there's

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a list of stuff here I don't know if

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we're gonna get to all of it we may have

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to make this a double show but Nick

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before we go on to anything else one of

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the things that I'd like to talk about

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is the fact that you know because you

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haven't been here a while and every time

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we have a guest on co-host we kind of

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like to ask hey what have you been up to

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lately and maybe you could possibly tell

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us how you spent your summer vacation

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what have you been doing less a week

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since we last heard from you locations

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concerned as you well know gene we spoke

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up here and now I cannot discuss that in

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this show it's all but hopefully if we

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get more of an interest but not a more

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entertaining but a more diverse show at

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some point which covers other realms and

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other areas there now perhaps be able to

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astonish the radio listeners with a few

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keishon but I mean that aside I do a lot

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of work outside of the whole paranormal

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realm and a lot of people don't realize

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I did a lot of ghost writing for authors

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on all sorts of subjects

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you know I'm no bearing on the

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paranormal it's just sort of one of the

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side projects I have you know when

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you're a freelance writer and you know

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write books a lot of people think you

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know you write a couple of books and

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you're driving around in a Corvette or

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something and you know living in the

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reality isn't quite like that the

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reality no I enjoy what I do but it's

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like you know every day is like a

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struggle you know I mean I'm not

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complaining because I actually enjoy

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that the lifestyle of having a pitch

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articles and sell ideas and you know

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every day is a bit different but it's

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unless you're sort of JK Rowling or

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Stephen King you know it's freelance

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right it is a hazardous job and so you

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know I'm always sort of pitching for new

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ideas and anything that's writing

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related and I also do a lot of writing

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for medical attorney based companies you

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know where you people have have had

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medical problems through prescription

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drugs you know I do a lot of writing in

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that field and also just wrapped up of

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manuscripts on the men in black which

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will be published next about next May

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now I wrote a book about four years ago

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called on the trail of the sorcerer

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spies which was how government agencies

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secretly watch paper in the UFO field

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but this and that was more from the

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government angle but this new book will

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be sort of addressing more the whole

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Kael Barker bender aspect of the man in

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black in other words you know that the

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paranormal supernatural aspects and

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overtones that go along with the whole

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MIB thing rather than just you know

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government quote secret agents or

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whatever so that that's what's being

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keeping me busy the last few months now

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I'm gonna ask you one thing as a hint

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and you can say you know what wait for

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the book but in doing this sort of thing

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do you think that you found any

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Providence for all this men and black

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stuff that there's really something to

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it oh yeah there's no doubt in my mind

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that there is you know I'm absolutely

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convinced of that you know I mean Anna

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beam can be for a long time that's one

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of the reasons I wanted

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to write this particular book you know

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that's a lot of people either take the

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view that there's nothing to the men in

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black stories but it's all hoaxing or

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walter mitty type UFO research is you

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know overstepping the mark and banging

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on someone's door and said I read your

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article in them or your story in a

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newspaper and please give me all the

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details and you know every UFO group

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wants the scoops so they may have said

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occasionally don't tell you know this

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group or that group and then people

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think they're being visited by the man

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in black or it's you know hoaxing etc

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etc or it's all government people but

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the more I've dug into it the more I

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found that this seems to be very

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sinister aspect to a lot of MIB stories

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that go beyond far beyond you know the

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whole idea of government personnel and

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which touch upon everything from like

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toll pers tricksters paranormal aspects

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weird synchronicities you know with

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these with these strange characters just

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kind of materializing out of nowhere and

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almost seen almost thing like temporary

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entities is the best way I can describe

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them it sounds to me like this is the

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entire so-called John keel syndrome well

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yeah I mean I do you know okay always

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one is a person like valet who I've a

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great deal of respectful in their in

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their writings and conclusions and I

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think I think the simplistic approach

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that MIB reports are hoaxes or

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government agencies so far away from the

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reality of the situation to be almost

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laughable that I think we're dealing

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with a phenomenon that's very difficult

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to comprehend but that's it to me it's

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almost as if the the angle of warning

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the witnesses not to talk about UFO

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encounters is secondary I think the the

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primary focus is instilling fear in the

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person and I think one of the things I

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one things I talk about in the book is

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the idea of these being sort of

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predatory paranormal entities that may

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fade on emotion and fear

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basically it's like to run is an

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invitation to being chased that's what

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John keel said so if you fear something

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you can cause it to come your way yes

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and also

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I think these entity that I point out in

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the book you know but I think fear is a

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key component of their existence almost

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like Tulpas that feed on high states of

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emotion I think you know the the threat

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and the warning is secondary to the

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emotional state that the threat creates

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in the person I think that's that's why

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we even get reports of MIB turning up in

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truly an oculus you know UFO case you

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have no real merit because it's not the

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case its importance what's important is

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instilling this shock factor in the

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witness that I think these MIB

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somehow almost like prey upon and I mean

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I know that's a controversial theory but

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I think I've been able to put together a

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lot of evidence suggesting there you

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know these entities could be the same

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ones that five hundred years ago were

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responsible for tales of predatory

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vampires and things like that it's all

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to do with entities that seem to be

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somehow feeding upon on the human psyche

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if you like well I'll tell you what that

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is not gonna be the topic of this week's

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especially how about that ladies and

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gentlemen but you know what that

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tantalizes us because we kind of think

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you know what when that book is out

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you're gonna be back and we're going to

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explore that in far more detail and

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maybe at that time we'll bring on my

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friend now in Greenfield

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or perhaps Jim Mosely to also talk about

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their understanding of the men in black

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lore

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so anyway guess what ladies and

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gentlemen we're not gonna talk about the

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men in black any further this time we're

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going to keep you curious because you

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know Nick is still doing the final work

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in the book he's submitted the

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manuscript goes through the editorial

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process maybe the men in black will

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visit him well they certainly make

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things a lot more interesting there'll

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be wild wicked and woolly but before we

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get to wild wicked and wooly let me tell

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your neighbors that on this particular

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episode Nick Redfern is gonna be talking

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about his new book which is called the

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NASA conspiracies now NASA conspiracies

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cover everything from

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the theory and as a matter of fact was

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very popular in the power caste forums

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whether the moon landing was staged by

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NASA for one reason or another that

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never really happened to the faces on

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Mars - all sorts of possibilities real

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or imagined the conspiracies could be a

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dime a dozen they could be credible

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we're gonna have to figure out exactly

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what's going on so we have two co-hosts

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we have Chris O'Brien and we have Nick

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Redfern author of the NASA conspiracies

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I'm Jean Steinberg and now we're gonna

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ask both of these gentlemen to try to do

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a course you're in the best Jacques

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fillet Budd Hopkins bright Steiger Nick

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Redfern Loren Coleman you'll find

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classic and new books by these and many

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other authors and anomalous books the

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number one publisher of 14 books on the

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planet they specialize in books on UFOs

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and aliens Bigfoot and crypto zoology

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parapsychology and the paranormal as

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well as alternative history all of which

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makes anomalous books simply phenomenal

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check out their catalogue at anomalous

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books calm that's a and oh ma li st

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books calm hi this is tomorrow from

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Namecheap we're a domain name and web

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we care about you if you'd like to learn

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more please visit us at Radio

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for web hosting and domain name specials

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you can also follow us on twitter at

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facebook.com slash Namecheap see you

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online

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have you ever felt like the united

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states government knows way too much

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about your financial affairs I continue

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to hear stories about property seizures

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frozen bank accounts confiscation of

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stocks and bonds it makes me wonder if

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the US citizen will ever again have the

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right to life liberty and the pursuit of

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happiness unfortunately with the drug

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and money laundering Act the IRS Revenue

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Ruling 60-45 of 1984 and that

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with the enemy act in Franklin D

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Roosevelt executive order of 1933 some

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precious metal holdings are subject to

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government intervention for this reason

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Midas Resources has prepared a report

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00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:15,520
hear from you if you have a comment or

330
00:14:21,870 --> 00:14:17,560
question about the pair cast send it to

331
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:21,880
news at the podcast com that's news at

332
00:14:26,430 --> 00:14:24,610
the Peres Gaston calm and don't forget

333
00:14:30,510 --> 00:14:26,440
to visit our famous pair cast community

334
00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:30,520
forums at forum dot Lapera cast comm get

335
00:14:39,660 --> 00:14:33,190
in on all the action at forum dot the

336
00:14:41,550 --> 00:14:39,670
para cast comm Nick Redfern our co-host

337
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:41,560
and our guest author of the NASA

338
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:43,930
conspiracies I'm Jean Steinberg Chris

339
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:45,970
O'Brien is our co-host you're in the

340
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:48,370
para cast you know it's not the most

341
00:14:53,130 --> 00:14:50,410
important conspiracy maybe but I'll

342
00:14:55,650 --> 00:14:53,140
bring it up you see a long time ago in a

343
00:14:58,020 --> 00:14:55,660
galaxy far far away our friendly

344
00:15:01,950 --> 00:14:58,030
neighborhood members of the para cast

345
00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:01,960
forums opted to talk about the

346
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:04,150
possibility that there was no moon

347
00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:06,370
landing so the question I'm going to ask

348
00:15:12,030 --> 00:15:09,310
Nick Redfern before we even get to that

349
00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:12,040
I'll create a cliffhanger Nick the NASA

350
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:14,350
conspiracies why did you come to write

351
00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:15,970
this book did you find that some of

352
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:17,950
these conspiracies are really true yeah

353
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:20,260
I mean the the whole thrust of the book

354
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:22,600
is an examination of the various

355
00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:24,610
theories or conspiracy theories

356
00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:25,990
surrounding Nasser and everything from

357
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:29,230
UFOs base on Mars etc it's not an

358
00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:31,750
upholding of all the theories it's my

359
00:15:36,270 --> 00:15:33,880
sort of examination and conclusions

360
00:15:39,570 --> 00:15:36,280
based around an evaluation of the

361
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:39,580
available evidence and the reason is to

362
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:42,270
how and why I wrote the book was because

363
00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:44,170
you know a lot of books have been

364
00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:46,120
written on single subjects like the face

365
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:46,870
on Mars

366
00:15:51,870 --> 00:15:48,010
like the moon land

367
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:51,880
etc etc astronaut sightings of UFOs but

368
00:15:57,210 --> 00:15:54,730
what I felt hadn't been done was was

369
00:15:59,100 --> 00:15:57,220
kind of like an unbiased approach

370
00:16:01,320 --> 00:15:59,110
because you know most of the books

371
00:16:02,970 --> 00:16:01,330
written on did we go to the moon were

372
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:02,980
written from the perspective of well no

373
00:16:06,420 --> 00:16:04,930
we didn't most of the books written on

374
00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:06,430
the face on Mars are written from the

375
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:09,400
perspective of it's definitely you know

376
00:16:13,290 --> 00:16:12,010
a sculpted face that dates back into the

377
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:13,300
you know ancient past

378
00:16:19,230 --> 00:16:15,970
so what I decided to do with this book

379
00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:19,240
was to try and present logical arguments

380
00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:22,360
in chapter by chapter format that would

381
00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:24,940
address the the salient points if you

382
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:27,190
like so the various conspiracies and

383
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,290
then be able to offer the reader you

384
00:16:34,350 --> 00:16:31,360
know some sort of meaningful conclusion

385
00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:34,360
as to what I felt was going on and how

386
00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:36,190
and why and of course one of the most

387
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,750
important things is that a lot of people

388
00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:39,040
don't realize there are so many

389
00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:41,350
different conspiracy theories relative

390
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:43,630
to NASA you know we're not just stuck on

391
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:46,690
the face and Mars and did we go to the

392
00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:48,850
moon or not you know there's dozens of

393
00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:51,550
weird stories which you know from book

394
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:53,350
writing perspective he's a good thing

395
00:16:59,940 --> 00:16:56,650
okay so we realize that what about the

396
00:17:01,170 --> 00:16:59,950
rumors of the moon landings being faked

397
00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:01,180
where did that come from

398
00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:03,790
well you know I mean a lot of it came in

399
00:17:07,050 --> 00:17:06,190
the early 1970s from a man named Bill

400
00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:07,060
casings

401
00:17:13,699 --> 00:17:10,150
who actually work closely with NASA and

402
00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:13,709
doing contract work etc now casing was

403
00:17:19,949 --> 00:17:17,350
one of the the prime movers I guess

404
00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:19,959
they've got the whole movement going you

405
00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:22,180
know the notion that the moon landings

406
00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:24,220
were faked primarily due to the fact

407
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:25,240
that NASA

408
00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:27,610
according to casing didn't just simply

409
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:30,280
did not have the expertise the

410
00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:33,310
technology to safely send people to the

411
00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:35,620
moon land them and get them back in one

412
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:38,020
piece you know with all the hazards that

413
00:17:42,830 --> 00:17:39,250
would go along with this

414
00:17:45,780 --> 00:17:42,840
everything from outer space radiation

415
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:45,790
calibrating the landing and takeoff

416
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:48,640
etcetera and ensuring they got back you

417
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:51,370
know at the as I said in one piece of

418
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:53,350
course I think as I point out you know I

419
00:17:58,110 --> 00:17:55,750
think one of the issues one the most

420
00:18:01,149 --> 00:17:58,120
important issue but it's also one that a

421
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:01,159
lot of people forget is that there are

422
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:03,080
you know there's a very good reason to

423
00:18:08,619 --> 00:18:06,559
be jaded and suspicious of anything

424
00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:08,629
we're told by government on any issue

425
00:18:13,869 --> 00:18:11,809
because we're so used today to being

426
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:13,879
kind of lied to in sort of almost like a

427
00:18:17,589 --> 00:18:15,679
matrix style world you know where we

428
00:18:18,969 --> 00:18:17,599
don't know what to believe or what's

429
00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:18,979
going on you only have to look at things

430
00:18:22,570 --> 00:18:21,470
like iran-contra weapons of mass

431
00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:22,580
destruction

432
00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:25,609
you know war on terror etc etc to

433
00:18:32,049 --> 00:18:28,609
realize that there are so many odd

434
00:18:33,789 --> 00:18:32,059
facets to these conspiracies or you know

435
00:18:35,889 --> 00:18:33,799
realities however you want to turn them

436
00:18:38,289 --> 00:18:35,899
but it's understandable the people would

437
00:18:40,479 --> 00:18:38,299
have jaded views on anything that comes

438
00:18:42,909 --> 00:18:40,489
out of the mouth of officialdom shall we

439
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:42,919
say I think that's an important factor I

440
00:18:47,919 --> 00:18:45,710
think also you know legitimate questions

441
00:18:49,989 --> 00:18:47,929
have been raised about certain aspects

442
00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:49,999
of the moon landings the big question is

443
00:18:54,999 --> 00:18:51,769
whether or not religious and the

444
00:18:57,849 --> 00:18:55,009
questions have legitimate answers or not

445
00:19:00,639 --> 00:18:57,859
now you know of course one of the one of

446
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:00,649
the most famous and controversial things

447
00:19:03,339 --> 00:19:01,970
that's being brought up about the moon

448
00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:03,349
landings is that on one particular

449
00:19:09,820 --> 00:19:06,289
mission where you see the astronauts

450
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:09,830
planting the flag it seems to wave now

451
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:11,450
of course in a vacuum you you know you

452
00:19:17,049 --> 00:19:15,769
simply cannot have a waving flag and a

453
00:19:19,239 --> 00:19:17,059
number of books have addressed this

454
00:19:20,619 --> 00:19:19,249
issue and you know loudly proclaim that

455
00:19:23,619 --> 00:19:20,629
well you know the flag rolls on the

456
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:23,629
astronaut plants it well yes it does but

457
00:19:29,049 --> 00:19:25,970
what a lot of people don't point out is

458
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:29,059
that it only waves when the astronauts

459
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:30,950
are handling it of the flag in the

460
00:19:35,019 --> 00:19:32,720
relevant footage is actually on screen

461
00:19:38,109 --> 00:19:35,029
so I think it's like 28 minutes or 31 I

462
00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:38,119
forget now but regardless it's pretty

463
00:19:43,330 --> 00:19:40,609
much half an hour basically the reasons

464
00:19:44,979 --> 00:19:43,340
waving is because his physical movement

465
00:19:46,869 --> 00:19:44,989
on the part of the astronauts to make it

466
00:19:50,019 --> 00:19:46,879
move it's not because of some unusual

467
00:19:51,639 --> 00:19:50,029
force because it was an area where there

468
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:51,649
was a win and you kind of think to if

469
00:19:57,339 --> 00:19:55,190
NASA was that stupid in the first place

470
00:19:58,899 --> 00:19:57,349
they deserved to be caught but wouldn't

471
00:20:00,609 --> 00:19:58,909
they allow for that they were staging

472
00:20:02,499 --> 00:20:00,619
this well yeah I mean you can look at it

473
00:20:04,330 --> 00:20:02,509
two ways some people say that they

474
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:04,340
weren't that stupid that there were

475
00:20:08,169 --> 00:20:05,840
whistleblowers who were trying to get

476
00:20:10,419 --> 00:20:08,179
the truth of the matter out now that's

477
00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:10,429
not implausible but I would be far more

478
00:20:14,330 --> 00:20:12,710
impressed by this flag-waving story if

479
00:20:16,159 --> 00:20:14,340
at any point after the

480
00:20:18,380 --> 00:20:16,169
not actually let the flag go after it's

481
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:18,390
planted it moved even once and

482
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:20,250
unfortunately for those who say this

483
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:23,100
issues relevant it doesn't move you know

484
00:20:26,990 --> 00:20:24,600
people don't have to take my word for it

485
00:20:29,539 --> 00:20:27,000
to you the ironic thing is that many of

486
00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:29,549
the people who uphold this theory in

487
00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:32,070
lectures and conferences only show it

488
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:34,350
moving when the astronauts plant the

489
00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:37,049
flag they'd fail every time to show the

490
00:20:41,269 --> 00:20:38,700
rest of the footage we're just not

491
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:41,279
moving and to me that's an uncritical

492
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:43,470
biased approach you know if you're gonna

493
00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:45,510
make this claim that the flag having

494
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,549
relevance you should point out that he

495
00:20:51,470 --> 00:20:49,919
doesn't know but any other occasion okay

496
00:20:53,659 --> 00:20:51,480
that particular argument doesn't sustain

497
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:53,669
itself any other arguments being voiced

498
00:20:57,980 --> 00:20:55,890
by the adherence of the moon landing is

499
00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:57,990
fake theory yeah I mean another one of

500
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:00,539
course is this issue of why there are no

501
00:21:06,260 --> 00:21:03,210
stars in the sky on many of the you know

502
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:06,270
the photographs and of course the the

503
00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:07,890
conspiracy theories would argue that

504
00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:09,720
NASA simply didn't have the capability

505
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:12,870
to accurately determine where all the

506
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:15,450
stars and the planets would be you know

507
00:21:18,909 --> 00:21:17,190
in the right place at the right time and

508
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:18,919
in a worst-case scenario somebody might

509
00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:20,730
realize that they're actually in the

510
00:21:25,639 --> 00:21:23,580
wrong place and so they did the best

511
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:25,649
thing they could do and that was to you

512
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:28,470
know obliterate the stars from the sky

513
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:30,090
if you know if it was filmed on earth

514
00:21:33,019 --> 00:21:31,770
somewhere and then people realize we'll

515
00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:33,029
hang on a minute you know we're seeing

516
00:21:36,980 --> 00:21:34,620
stars from the perspective where there

517
00:21:39,380 --> 00:21:36,990
would be in the Earth's night sky

518
00:21:41,630 --> 00:21:39,390
now again you know NASA has put forward

519
00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:41,640
what I believe to be valid arguments you

520
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:43,950
know it's kind of like you're looking up

521
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:46,169
in the sky and the day occasionally

522
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:48,450
you'll see the moon very occasionally

523
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:49,919
you might see Venus that does have an

524
00:21:54,649 --> 00:21:51,809
occasional but you will not see stars

525
00:21:57,049 --> 00:21:54,659
and and NASA's view is that you know the

526
00:22:00,490 --> 00:21:57,059
fact that the Sun you know he's beaming

527
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:00,500
on the moon's surface and you know the

528
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:04,559
lack of an atmosphere and also the

529
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:05,940
cameras that were being used simply

530
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:08,250
whited out the stars you know it was

531
00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:10,710
just too bright to actually pick up

532
00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:12,539
imagery now of course then the

533
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:15,000
conspiracy conspiracy theories roll

534
00:22:18,649 --> 00:22:16,710
their eyes and say no this you know

535
00:22:21,049 --> 00:22:18,659
that's that's just not possible we

536
00:22:22,669 --> 00:22:21,059
should be seeing stars so in other words

537
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:22,679
this aspect of the story is an

538
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:24,090
intriguing one but it's very much like

539
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:27,000
an us-versus-them type thing where you

540
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:28,370
know nobody's satisfied

541
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:30,530
with the other party dancer those are

542
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,510
two of the main ones got a comment or a

543
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:34,640
question send it to news at the para

544
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cast com

545
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:39,410
you what Nick we'll go to break for a

546
00:22:44,170 --> 00:22:41,570
second we have Nicholas Redfern the book

547
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is the NASA conspiracies our co-host is

548
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Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

549
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in

550
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[Music]

551
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Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

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out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

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relentless perplexing nightmares

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space and of a mysterious woman

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suffering an agony for her devastated

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world a woman not yet born calling

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across centuries to him then a

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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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Shinobu we are the gcn radio network

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[Music]

636
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:15,740
this is the wrong tire cluster of the

637
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:18,050
UFO encyclopedia other books when you're

638
00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:19,760
listening to the podcast

639
00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:28,710
between brakes ladies and gentlemen Nick

640
00:27:32,790 --> 00:27:30,820
Redfern and Chris O'Brien are genial

641
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:32,800
co-hosts are not so genial they're

642
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:35,050
fighting each other tooth and nail to

643
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:37,210
see who will say the words the para cast

644
00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:39,910
in the most effective fashion I'm Jean

645
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:41,920
Steinberg you're in the para cast where

646
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:43,450
anything could happen and usually does

647
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:45,880
the book on the table is the NASA

648
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:49,120
conspiracies Nick's new book and Chris

649
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:50,650
why don't you pick up on this let's

650
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:52,570
pursue the discussion I guess we're kind

651
00:27:57,419 --> 00:27:55,090
of wrapping up the moon landing is fake

652
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:57,429
thing so let's go on yeah one of the

653
00:28:01,140 --> 00:27:58,960
things that I think you bring up very

654
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:01,150
effectively Nick and in the chapter on

655
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,970
the question of the validity of any

656
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:05,679
arguments that argue against the moon

657
00:28:09,570 --> 00:28:07,870
landing is that thousands of people

658
00:28:11,850 --> 00:28:09,580
would have to be brought into some sort

659
00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:11,860
of loop on that and it would be very

660
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:13,750
very difficult to hold something so

661
00:28:17,850 --> 00:28:16,240
immense like that secret and obviously

662
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:17,860
you know no one has ever come forward

663
00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:19,510
really and as a whistleblower and

664
00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:21,660
spilled the beans on any sort of

665
00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:24,580
conspiratorial theory like that so would

666
00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:26,260
you like to address that yeah sure I

667
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:27,460
mean I think that is one of the

668
00:28:31,290 --> 00:28:28,960
important points and it says a lot about

669
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:31,300
human nature I mean for example there

670
00:28:35,070 --> 00:28:33,370
were more than if you look at NASA and

671
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:35,080
the outside contractors that were

672
00:28:39,150 --> 00:28:36,610
involved in you know building everything

673
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:39,160
from like life-support systems the

674
00:28:44,669 --> 00:28:41,170
computers etc there are actually more

675
00:28:47,580 --> 00:28:44,679
than 400,000 people words on the entire

676
00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:47,590
Apollo program from its inception when

677
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:50,860
Kennedy made his speech in 62 they'll go

678
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:52,960
into the moon too when the Apollo

679
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,170
missions finished in 72 now 400,000

680
00:29:01,560 --> 00:28:59,200
people you know it's only 1% about

681
00:29:04,290 --> 00:29:01,570
400,000 were cluding on what really

682
00:29:06,090 --> 00:29:04,300
happened but still 4,000 people

683
00:29:08,010 --> 00:29:06,100
I mean look for example how quickly

684
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:08,020
things like Watergate dissolved

685
00:29:13,169 --> 00:29:10,690
iran-contra even the whole weapons and

686
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:13,179
mass destruction fiasco you know and

687
00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:15,280
we're talking about they just fell apart

688
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:18,700
in weeks or months you know the idea

689
00:29:23,610 --> 00:29:21,190
that a significant percentage or even a

690
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:23,620
small percentage of 400,000 people could

691
00:29:29,790 --> 00:29:26,320
uphold a conspiracy like this for more

692
00:29:31,770 --> 00:29:29,800
than 40 years in my view is beyond

693
00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:31,780
feasible don't get me wrong I think

694
00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:33,220
there's definitely been some interesting

695
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:35,140
books written suggesting we didn't go to

696
00:29:37,620 --> 00:29:36,070
the moon and I

697
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:37,630
would actually urge people to Raven to

698
00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:39,910
get both viewpoints but what I do think

699
00:29:44,790 --> 00:29:42,670
is that we were beyond having just

700
00:29:47,010 --> 00:29:44,800
questionable photographs and theories

701
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:47,020
about the stars in the sky and books

702
00:29:52,350 --> 00:29:49,840
written we would have had at least a few

703
00:29:54,690 --> 00:29:52,360
credible people come forward on the

704
00:29:56,550 --> 00:29:54,700
record and say hey you know I was one of

705
00:29:58,890 --> 00:29:56,560
the people who set up the lights out in

706
00:30:00,810 --> 00:29:58,900
the desert when we filmed this area 51

707
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:00,820
or whatever you know and I was working

708
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:02,710
or I was on the people who flew in by

709
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:05,350
helicopter the lunar module and you know

710
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:07,750
we landed it down on the ground and you

711
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:09,610
know etcetera etcetera but we don't have

712
00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:12,610
a single person you know that's why even

713
00:30:15,150 --> 00:30:13,540
with things like the Kennedy

714
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:15,160
assassination which provokes a lot of

715
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:17,530
controversy we at least have people

716
00:30:21,270 --> 00:30:19,210
coming forward saying I was the second

717
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:21,280
or the third gunman we don't even have

718
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:23,410
anybody in the whole NASA field of the

719
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:25,510
you know the moon landing saying I was a

720
00:30:29,730 --> 00:30:27,790
second or third camera man you know we

721
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:29,740
just don't have anything like that and I

722
00:30:35,010 --> 00:30:31,570
think that's one of the things that

723
00:30:37,770 --> 00:30:35,020
makes this theory one say untenable but

724
00:30:42,330 --> 00:30:37,780
I would say highly unlikely now doesn't

725
00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:42,340
that also augur the same conclusion to

726
00:30:47,910 --> 00:30:44,470
the theory that the government knows

727
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:47,920
about UFOs and has the stuff on ice

728
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:51,610
somewhere because somebody somewhere has

729
00:30:56,580 --> 00:30:53,200
to spill the beans

730
00:30:59,610 --> 00:30:56,590
where am I wrong he's got a really good

731
00:31:02,460 --> 00:30:59,620
source in the book the next New York

732
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:02,470
City policeman that came forward and

733
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:04,210
talked to Nick maybe you should address

734
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:06,190
that Nick that's that's one of the best

735
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:08,110
most fascinating parts of the book I

736
00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:10,690
think yeah this is a very weird story of

737
00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:13,020
a guy who I spoke to named John who was

738
00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:15,790
originally in the New York Police

739
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:17,800
Department and he began working in

740
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:20,470
tandem not before but in tandem with the

741
00:31:25,410 --> 00:31:23,650
FBI on like aspiring that was supposedly

742
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:25,420
operating in New York and the police

743
00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:27,310
department working with the FBI and John

744
00:31:32,130 --> 00:31:30,670
you know very very elderly guy this is

745
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:32,140
for in the late fifties early sixties

746
00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:36,310
and he was sort of in instrumental in

747
00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:37,780
being part of this particular program

748
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:39,640
and when he retired from the police

749
00:31:43,410 --> 00:31:41,110
force has actually offered a job with

750
00:31:46,140 --> 00:31:43,420
Wackenhut who were actually responsible

751
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:46,150
for the security area 51 for quite a

752
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:48,970
long time and it was he's basically a

753
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:49,930
case of

754
00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:51,730
we were very impressed with the work you

755
00:31:55,650 --> 00:31:53,620
did when you were within the police

756
00:31:58,620 --> 00:31:55,660
force on this spiring operation with the

757
00:32:00,780 --> 00:31:58,630
FBI would you be interested now that

758
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:00,790
you're retired you know in doing some

759
00:32:05,670 --> 00:32:03,640
sort of contract work or you know after

760
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,680
record work even with work and hearts

761
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:08,559
etc etcetera and you know he he was told

762
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:11,290
that he would give him a good I guess

763
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:14,290
outlet in the world of private security

764
00:32:19,549 --> 00:32:16,570
etc which is a very lucrative field

765
00:32:22,110 --> 00:32:19,559
certainly and he was offered a job

766
00:32:24,330 --> 00:32:22,120
working at a secure installation in

767
00:32:26,370 --> 00:32:24,340
Nevada which with hindsight we would

768
00:32:29,790 --> 00:32:26,380
call today area 51 he stressed to me

769
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:29,800
back in around 1969 1970 when this

770
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:32,500
kicked off the term area 51 was never

771
00:32:36,330 --> 00:32:34,330
mentioned to him it's an interesting

772
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:36,340
story because you can look at it from

773
00:32:44,370 --> 00:32:40,720
two ways john was basically briefed by

774
00:32:46,410 --> 00:32:44,380
NASA personnel and people from the

775
00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:46,420
intelligence community to the effect

776
00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:49,030
that at area 51 they were stored a

777
00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:51,340
number of crashed or recovered UFOs

778
00:32:57,390 --> 00:32:53,740
number of alien bodies and also an

779
00:33:00,419 --> 00:32:57,400
extensive body of documentation that's

780
00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:00,429
new personnel and people working on

781
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:02,500
various projects would from time to time

782
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:05,650
be required to review and read as part

783
00:33:09,419 --> 00:33:07,300
of their you know day-to-day activities

784
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:09,429
and John was offered a position is like

785
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:12,250
a custodian of these files and as a

786
00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:14,710
result he was obliged to read them and

787
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:16,990
review them and deeply understand them

788
00:33:23,010 --> 00:33:19,450
and they told a fantastic story of

789
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:23,020
crashed UFOs and strange beings and

790
00:33:27,390 --> 00:33:24,850
bodies found in the New Mexico desert

791
00:33:30,810 --> 00:33:27,400
and the deserts of Utah and Arizona and

792
00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:30,820
all sorts of places in from 1943 onwards

793
00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:33,100
not actually 47 but from the early 14

794
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:35,590
onwards and he said from time to time

795
00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:37,809
you know people would come in to his

796
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,670
office when he was working out of area

797
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:41,440
51 and say you know we need to review

798
00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:44,230
these files and and John would you know

799
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:46,660
pull the files and every review by

800
00:33:51,180 --> 00:33:47,950
whoever wanted to review them and they'd

801
00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:51,190
be returned now John quite legitimately

802
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:53,110
had questions this was a one-year

803
00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:55,840
contract and he said you know why was I

804
00:34:01,200 --> 00:33:58,810
exposed to these files for a period of

805
00:34:03,150 --> 00:34:01,210
one year you know why was I given access

806
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:03,160
to what the presumably one of the US

807
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:03,610
government

808
00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:06,130
and NASA's most guarded secrets if I was

809
00:34:12,810 --> 00:34:09,250
only there 365 days you know and that

810
00:34:15,869 --> 00:34:12,820
was it he actually wondered if all this

811
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:15,879
material was actually totally bogus and

812
00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:20,770
it was really kind of like a test if you

813
00:34:25,649 --> 00:34:23,350
like for to test his loyalty and

814
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:25,659
certainly after that year finished he

815
00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:28,510
was given very sort of prestigious work

816
00:34:33,149 --> 00:34:30,700
within the intelligence community doing

817
00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:33,159
outside contract work in security issues

818
00:34:38,359 --> 00:34:36,190
etc today he sort of viewed it as like a

819
00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:38,369
real Hall of Mirrors you know was he

820
00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:41,950
exposed to real documentation to area 51

821
00:34:46,859 --> 00:34:44,590
or was it bogus you know and if

822
00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:46,869
afterwards you know years later you run

823
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:49,030
into the New York Times or whatever or

824
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:50,800
even to the UFO community you know he'd

825
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:53,200
be perceived as someone who who wasn't a

826
00:34:58,500 --> 00:34:55,570
valued person who could you know keep

827
00:35:00,570 --> 00:34:58,510
secrets etc but if he did do that no

828
00:35:02,430 --> 00:35:00,580
real secrets would be compromised so

829
00:35:04,290 --> 00:35:02,440
he's very much in two minds even now in

830
00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:04,300
his eighties as to what he was actually

831
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:06,700
exposed to what he wasn't exposed to and

832
00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:09,130
he was keen to stress he never saw any

833
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:11,380
crashed UFOs or alien bodies in

834
00:35:15,540 --> 00:35:13,200
cryogenic storage it was all

835
00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:15,550
documentation that was carefully placed

836
00:35:19,770 --> 00:35:17,830
in front of him and in some respects you

837
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:19,780
could argue that this very much

838
00:35:23,790 --> 00:35:21,430
parallels the whole thing with Bob Lazar

839
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:23,800
I know a lot of people just outright

840
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:24,970
dismiss Bob Lazar

841
00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:28,000
but his story was almost like this of

842
00:35:33,060 --> 00:35:30,310
deliberately exposing him to certain

843
00:35:35,460 --> 00:35:33,070
things like documentation and craft

844
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:35,470
allegedly you know and I do sometimes

845
00:35:39,450 --> 00:35:37,359
wonder if the whole motivation of the

846
00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:39,460
Lazar thing was to say if he talks and

847
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:41,740
if he did to sort of spread like a meme

848
00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:44,290
the idea that there are crashed UFOs at

849
00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:47,020
area 51 and to see then who comes

850
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:48,609
locking you know the Russians gonna come

851
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,910
lock in etc if they do well maybe we can

852
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:53,680
catch a few spies in the process we've

853
00:35:58,050 --> 00:35:55,440
had actually compromising any real

854
00:35:59,700 --> 00:35:58,060
secret so I'll be the first to admit the

855
00:36:02,400 --> 00:35:59,710
story of Johnny the fascinating one

856
00:36:05,820 --> 00:36:02,410
because he ties in with NASA or 51

857
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:05,830
crashed UFOs get aliens live aliens but

858
00:36:11,550 --> 00:36:07,690
it could all be some sort of weird

859
00:36:15,150 --> 00:36:11,560
bizarre psychological warfare program to

860
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:15,160
test a loyalty of someone who would lay

861
00:36:20,670 --> 00:36:17,410
to be offered a very lucrative

862
00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:20,680
in private security Chris yeah why but

863
00:36:24,570 --> 00:36:22,780
you know I was just fascinated by some

864
00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:24,580
of the details that he came up with and

865
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:27,430
describing some of the documentation and

866
00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:30,490
I think there was one instance in there

867
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,060
where he mentioned a a UFO crash that

868
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:36,480
was investigated by the Air Force in

869
00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:40,240
Arizona in the early 50s and and I

870
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:42,280
wasn't in Arizona in the early 50s but I

871
00:36:48,210 --> 00:36:44,800
have to tell you we have Chris O'Brien

872
00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:48,220
Nick Redfern co-host all Nick's author

873
00:36:51,870 --> 00:36:49,240
of a new book called the NASA

874
00:37:03,270 --> 00:36:51,880
conspiracies I'm Jean Steinberg you're

875
00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:03,280
in the para cast is there a secret UFO

876
00:37:12,510 --> 00:37:09,700
agenda to strange creatures is there

877
00:37:16,170 --> 00:37:12,520
evidence for mind-control time travel or

878
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devious government conspiracies find out

879
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the inside scoop on the latest

880
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conspiracies paranormal activity and

881
00:37:26,010 --> 00:37:23,050
important phenomena when you subscribe

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to 10 Beckley's conspiracy Turrell it's

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jam-packed with stories special book and

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DVD promotions and the best news it's

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930
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Anderson have you ever wondered why

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banks stockbrokers investment advisors

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won't talk about gold IRAs they've been

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industry won't recognize the value of

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word about IRAs if you would like to

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a drug with possible nasty side effects

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963
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radio network providing the world with

964
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:07,790
hard-hitting talk radio G C and grey

965
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:22,880
talk radio starts here catch as catch

966
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:25,310
can that's how we do it here you know

967
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:26,930
what happens here because we want equal

968
00:41:31,210 --> 00:41:28,970
time we don't want Chris or Nick both

969
00:41:32,860 --> 00:41:31,220
genial gentlemen to fight each other

970
00:41:34,990 --> 00:41:32,870
from thousands of miles away because

971
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:35,000
they can do that virtually because this

972
00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:36,770
is a paranormal radio show anything

973
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:38,150
could happen can you imagine you know in

974
00:41:44,290 --> 00:41:41,530
the 17th dimension the fisticuffs

975
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:44,300
consider the possibilities the book is

976
00:41:48,310 --> 00:41:46,400
called NASA conspiracies from Nick

977
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,320
Redfern I'm gene Steinberger in the

978
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:50,480
power cast and somehow how did we get

979
00:41:56,290 --> 00:41:54,050
into UFOs from NASA curious do you think

980
00:41:57,790 --> 00:41:56,300
is any evidence at all Nick just to

981
00:42:02,380 --> 00:41:57,800
raise the question put it on the table

982
00:42:05,140 --> 00:42:02,390
that NASA was responding in any way to

983
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:05,150
the UFO situation well yeah I mean I

984
00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:06,560
guess it really depends on how you

985
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:08,630
define respond I mean one of the things

986
00:42:13,090 --> 00:42:10,640
we do know for certain is that you know

987
00:42:14,770 --> 00:42:13,100
it's very earliest formative years one

988
00:42:17,470 --> 00:42:14,780
of the things that NASA did was to

989
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:17,480
contract a report from the blockings

990
00:42:23,090 --> 00:42:20,240
Institute became known as a blockings

991
00:42:24,590 --> 00:42:23,100
report which essentially was like a

992
00:42:27,820 --> 00:42:24,600
a lot of people assumed it was just

993
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:27,830
about UFOs and aliens it wasn't NASA

994
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:30,480
contracted with the Brookings Institute

995
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:34,710
to prepare a report on you know a whole

996
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:38,490
range of aspects of NASA's work and he

997
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:40,110
was actually called proposed Studies on

998
00:42:44,810 --> 00:42:42,450
the implications of peaceful space

999
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:44,820
activities for human affairs kind of

1000
00:42:50,210 --> 00:42:47,730
like a long-winded title but it was

1001
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:50,220
presented was prepared and submitted to

1002
00:42:55,940 --> 00:42:53,160
the House of Representatives in 1961 I

1003
00:42:57,350 --> 00:42:55,950
was kind of like a study of what you

1004
00:42:59,720 --> 00:42:57,360
know the government could expect from

1005
00:43:02,660 --> 00:42:59,730
NASA now that it was created and you

1006
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:02,670
know the forthcoming decades etc but one

1007
00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:04,980
of the most interesting aspects of the

1008
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:07,470
report was one titled the implications

1009
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:09,930
of a discovery of extraterrestrial life

1010
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:12,890
and this is important because

1011
00:43:19,340 --> 00:43:15,420
potentially at least sort of sets the

1012
00:43:21,740 --> 00:43:19,350
scene for how NASA would respond to the

1013
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:21,750
issue of alien life in years to come for

1014
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:23,730
example there are sections of the report

1015
00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:25,710
quite intriguing Li bearing in mind the

1016
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:28,440
whole face in face of mask controversy

1017
00:43:33,230 --> 00:43:29,850
because one section of the report which

1018
00:43:35,930 --> 00:43:33,240
talks about hypothetically how NASA on

1019
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:35,940
some of its future base missions to Mars

1020
00:43:40,850 --> 00:43:38,640
or the moon etc bhangra - is written in

1021
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:40,860
1960 you know might actually find

1022
00:43:45,530 --> 00:43:43,590
ancient structures and formations on

1023
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:45,540
Mars and on the moon you know which is

1024
00:43:49,610 --> 00:43:47,490
sort of it's almost like a chillingly a

1025
00:43:51,460 --> 00:43:49,620
eerie precursor of what happened with

1026
00:43:54,350 --> 00:43:51,470
the face on Mars there are also

1027
00:43:56,180 --> 00:43:54,360
questions asked as to not when the

1028
00:43:58,970 --> 00:43:56,190
general public should be told about the

1029
00:44:01,040 --> 00:43:58,980
discovery of alien life even if the

1030
00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:01,050
general public should be told and how it

1031
00:44:06,830 --> 00:44:03,150
might impact upon belief systems

1032
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,840
religion all sorts of things yes it's

1033
00:44:11,090 --> 00:44:08,400
certainly the case that the Brookings

1034
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:11,100
report was very much hypothetical in the

1035
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:13,170
sense of laying out scenarios for NASA

1036
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:16,650
in the event that a B or C happened but

1037
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:18,630
given the fact that you know this was

1038
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:21,240
after the earth ten years 13 years after

1039
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:23,250
Kenneth Arnold sighting and the UFO

1040
00:44:28,940 --> 00:44:25,800
phenomenon of course was in full swing I

1041
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:28,950
think this is a incredibly important

1042
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:31,530
document because it demonstrates the way

1043
00:44:38,420 --> 00:44:36,210
in which NASA was obliged to respond to

1044
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:38,430
the nature of alien life and clearly

1045
00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:41,690
NASA was was fully aware of the

1046
00:44:47,569 --> 00:44:44,670
potential social implications of what

1047
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:47,579
could happen from a you know public

1048
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:49,710
statement that yes UFOs are amongst us

1049
00:44:54,349 --> 00:44:52,319
aliens are real and the impact upon

1050
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:54,359
religion the economy and everything else

1051
00:44:57,470 --> 00:44:55,890
all this was spelled out in the

1052
00:44:59,839 --> 00:44:57,480
Brookings report and I don't think it's

1053
00:45:02,960 --> 00:44:59,849
you know entirely coincidental that's

1054
00:45:04,940 --> 00:45:02,970
the response that NASA makes today

1055
00:45:07,940 --> 00:45:04,950
and has done with respect to UFOs and

1056
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:07,950
alien life seems to be driven from that

1057
00:45:13,099 --> 00:45:10,530
report prepared only like a year or so

1058
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:13,109
after NASA's inception now of course the

1059
00:45:19,099 --> 00:45:16,050
story is that the Russians ganda space

1060
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:19,109
in the 1970s was Sputnik we have to

1061
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:21,089
respond to the Russians they beat us to

1062
00:45:25,970 --> 00:45:23,250
outer space and of course President

1063
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:25,980
Kennedy states this goal we will land on

1064
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:29,040
the moon in 1969 so the theory began

1065
00:45:33,020 --> 00:45:30,720
that this was all done because of the

1066
00:45:34,490 --> 00:45:33,030
Russians but the implication here based

1067
00:45:37,069 --> 00:45:34,500
on the Brookings report and everything

1068
00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:37,079
you say is there was a deep remote of

1069
00:45:40,579 --> 00:45:39,030
all along well you know I think you can

1070
00:45:42,349 --> 00:45:40,589
look at it from a chicken both wet

1071
00:45:44,599 --> 00:45:42,359
angles I don't think it's one or the

1072
00:45:47,809 --> 00:45:44,609
other I think you know it goes both ways

1073
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:47,819
I think there's absolutely no doubt that

1074
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:50,490
you know when NASA began in its

1075
00:45:53,660 --> 00:45:52,770
formative years very much at the height

1076
00:45:56,329 --> 00:45:53,670
of the Cold War

1077
00:45:58,730 --> 00:45:56,339
this wasn't just about scientific

1078
00:46:02,120 --> 00:45:58,740
exploration it was about you know

1079
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:02,130
prestige and America's position on the

1080
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:03,960
world stage as it relates to outer space

1081
00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:06,450
I mean yeah a lot you know Americans

1082
00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:08,910
certainly Trump the Russians massively

1083
00:46:14,299 --> 00:46:11,670
by landing a man on the moon noble men

1084
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:14,309
on the moon in 1969 but you know the

1085
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:15,450
Russians had launched the first

1086
00:46:21,049 --> 00:46:18,930
satellite Sputnik in 57 they launched

1087
00:46:23,420 --> 00:46:21,059
the first animal into space they

1088
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:23,430
launched the first human into space Yuri

1089
00:46:29,150 --> 00:46:27,030
Gagarin in that respect bear in mind I

1090
00:46:30,799 --> 00:46:29,160
to the Cold War you know the whole regs

1091
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:30,809
under the beds things when kids are

1092
00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:32,760
being told at school you know when you

1093
00:46:36,319 --> 00:46:34,230
hear the alarm put your heads under the

1094
00:46:38,690 --> 00:46:36,329
desks and you know kiss your ass

1095
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:38,700
good-bye so to speak to find that the

1096
00:46:43,940 --> 00:46:41,280
Russians where it was so far ahead the

1097
00:46:45,740 --> 00:46:43,950
only real way could be eclipsed was by

1098
00:46:48,260 --> 00:46:45,750
you know man in a man on the moon that

1099
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:48,270
would be the ultimate you know shave

1100
00:46:52,650 --> 00:46:50,110
Minh so I think he was

1101
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:52,660
early days were as much about scientific

1102
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:55,450
exploration as they were as increasing

1103
00:46:59,820 --> 00:46:57,850
America's position on the world stage as

1104
00:47:02,220 --> 00:46:59,830
it related to the you know the early

1105
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:02,230
burgeoning ventures into outer space

1106
00:47:08,070 --> 00:47:04,810
okay but the other consideration being

1107
00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:08,080
here that it looks as if whatever else

1108
00:47:12,990 --> 00:47:10,150
you think the emphasis and the space

1109
00:47:14,610 --> 00:47:13,000
program died not long after we landed on

1110
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:14,620
the moon we've got a few more there and

1111
00:47:19,230 --> 00:47:17,200
then in the 80s we have a space shuttle

1112
00:47:22,350 --> 00:47:19,240
program and if you can believe the

1113
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:22,360
current political scuttlebutt well NASA

1114
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:24,370
is all as good as dead because they're

1115
00:47:29,820 --> 00:47:27,330
not going to continue the Space Shuttle

1116
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:29,830
we're looking into private industry to

1117
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:32,650
ferry astronauts to the Soviet space

1118
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:36,130
stations etc etc we may not get back to

1119
00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:39,310
anywhere for another what 20 years or so

1120
00:47:44,370 --> 00:47:41,830
except maybe a moon thing yeah I think

1121
00:47:47,850 --> 00:47:44,380
you know this is an unfortunate thing is

1122
00:47:51,090 --> 00:47:47,860
that I think you know NASA when the moon

1123
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:51,100
landings occurred 69 to 72 NASA was

1124
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:53,170
really on the cusp of where well you

1125
00:47:57,590 --> 00:47:55,150
know 10 years from now if we really push

1126
00:48:00,810 --> 00:47:57,600
it we could have like a permanent manned

1127
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:00,820
station on the moon but he was like it

1128
00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:03,760
all other than this you know the Skylab

1129
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:05,470
and then in the early eighties the Space

1130
00:48:10,170 --> 00:48:08,290
Shuttle onwards yes that was you know

1131
00:48:11,940 --> 00:48:10,180
that was great news and you know the

1132
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:11,950
idea of having a shuttlecraft that can

1133
00:48:16,170 --> 00:48:13,570
go back and forth rather than like the

1134
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:16,180
Apollo rockets they're just one-off you

1135
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:18,610
know it was a great development but it

1136
00:48:24,090 --> 00:48:22,330
was almost as if you know as if the as

1137
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:24,100
if NASA had sort of taken a step

1138
00:48:29,580 --> 00:48:27,250
backwards or getting sort of you know

1139
00:48:32,970 --> 00:48:29,590
jump on this achievement he had made and

1140
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:32,980
carry on the the impetus and you know

1141
00:48:38,820 --> 00:48:35,050
just keep pushing forward and I think a

1142
00:48:40,590 --> 00:48:38,830
lot of people just lost interest I mean

1143
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:40,600
you know again it's one of the sort of

1144
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,450
ironic things about society is a people

1145
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:45,280
lost interest after the first couple of

1146
00:48:48,990 --> 00:48:47,050
new moon and it was like oh yeah it's

1147
00:48:51,090 --> 00:48:49,000
another moon landing you know the first

1148
00:48:52,620 --> 00:48:51,100
one was fantastic but then after the

1149
00:48:55,260 --> 00:48:52,630
third one it was oh yeah they're gonna

1150
00:48:57,660 --> 00:48:55,270
go up and being a few rocks back and you

1151
00:48:59,780 --> 00:48:57,670
know what times I Love Lucy on you know

1152
00:49:02,370 --> 00:48:59,790
that's that's how he became

1153
00:49:03,630 --> 00:49:02,380
unfortunately and I think part of it

1154
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:03,640
could be

1155
00:49:09,260 --> 00:49:06,370
relations you know the idea of people

1156
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:09,270
not understanding realizing the sheer

1157
00:49:13,710 --> 00:49:11,710
importance of the fact that we were no

1158
00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:13,720
longer tethered to the earth but a lot

1159
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:15,940
of people just did not care you know

1160
00:49:19,950 --> 00:49:18,370
it's kind of like today there's so much

1161
00:49:23,010 --> 00:49:19,960
stuff going on in the world today that

1162
00:49:25,710 --> 00:49:23,020
you know a lot of people a lot of

1163
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:25,720
serious deadly stuff going on but all

1164
00:49:29,550 --> 00:49:27,520
people worried about you know what the

1165
00:49:31,410 --> 00:49:29,560
ladies Hollywood starlets up to and

1166
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:31,420
whatever and I think that's something

1167
00:49:35,450 --> 00:49:33,610
that parallels what was going back I'm

1168
00:49:40,020 --> 00:49:35,460
in the 70s with you know the Apollo

1169
00:49:42,270 --> 00:49:40,030
programs etc that people just didn't

1170
00:49:44,130 --> 00:49:42,280
care that much unfortunately it was just

1171
00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:44,140
oh yeah that's that's interesting the

1172
00:49:49,380 --> 00:49:46,540
first time and after that it was well so

1173
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:49,390
what and I think you know NASA needs to

1174
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:52,480
find a way to galvanize the public the

1175
00:49:55,710 --> 00:49:54,370
media and the government you know a lot

1176
00:49:57,300 --> 00:49:55,720
of people in governments just want to

1177
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:57,310
shut down a lot of NASA programs today

1178
00:50:01,620 --> 00:49:59,440
you know I think it's an incredible

1179
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:01,630
thing that we could one day send men to

1180
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:04,240
Mars women to Mars and find out the

1181
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:06,160
truth about the face on Mars you know

1182
00:50:10,380 --> 00:50:07,690
it's almost like well what's Paris

1183
00:50:11,940 --> 00:50:10,390
Hilton up to okay so the politicians you

1184
00:50:13,380 --> 00:50:11,950
know the politicians they all know

1185
00:50:16,590 --> 00:50:13,390
what's going on then that's why they

1186
00:50:19,010 --> 00:50:16,600
want to shut NASA down I think a lot of

1187
00:50:22,140 --> 00:50:19,020
it is just ignorance you know it's like

1188
00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:22,150
you know I see people like certain

1189
00:50:26,670 --> 00:50:24,220
politicians from Alaska who know nothing

1190
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:26,680
they know nothing and they want to run

1191
00:50:31,260 --> 00:50:29,680
for president you know and that's they

1192
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:31,270
don't take the time to find out the

1193
00:50:36,740 --> 00:50:35,050
important things and I think that's

1194
00:50:40,770 --> 00:50:36,750
what's happening with NASA you know NASA

1195
00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:40,780
could be has a potential to be such a

1196
00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:44,260
groundbreaking powerful agency taking us

1197
00:50:49,740 --> 00:50:47,590
to sort of such an uncharted realms but

1198
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:49,750
for many people just like oh yeah well

1199
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:51,490
they went to the moon 40 years ago but

1200
00:50:55,860 --> 00:50:53,530
what have they done since and I think

1201
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:55,870
there's I think a lot of people are you

1202
00:50:58,980 --> 00:50:57,130
know I think it's wrong but I think a

1203
00:51:01,200 --> 00:50:58,990
lot of people do view it like that it's

1204
00:51:03,930 --> 00:51:01,210
like should we really be doing stuff in

1205
00:51:06,990 --> 00:51:03,940
outer space when you know the nation's

1206
00:51:10,410 --> 00:51:07,000
300 pounds and diabetic and crimes out

1207
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:10,420
of control or whatever you know if radom

1208
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:12,970
trillion-dollar defense budgets you know

1209
00:51:16,620 --> 00:51:15,520
again to the politics and we can't get

1210
00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:16,630
away from politics when you talk about

1211
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:17,060
now

1212
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:19,220
cuz it's a political agency folks and

1213
00:51:23,590 --> 00:51:21,410
you can't get away from our forums

1214
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:23,600
because they consume so much a part of

1215
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:26,510
what we do on the para caste go to forum

1216
00:51:31,090 --> 00:51:29,210
doctor para cast calm that's forum dot

1217
00:51:33,820 --> 00:51:31,100
power cast calm we have Nick Redfern

1218
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:33,830
author over NASA conspiracies Chris

1219
00:51:39,700 --> 00:51:35,810
O'Brien is our other co-host I'm gene

1220
00:51:47,140 --> 00:51:39,710
Steinberg you're in the podcast yes you

1221
00:51:52,060 --> 00:51:49,410
[Music]

1222
00:51:54,010 --> 00:51:52,070
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

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00:51:56,290 --> 00:51:54,020
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

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00:51:58,060 --> 00:51:56,300
favorite programs on GCM I've got good

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00:52:00,400 --> 00:51:58,070
news for you I'm proud to announce that

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GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

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00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:04,940
live.com listen to your favorite

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hard-hitting GCM programs live or

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on-demand right on your iPhone and the

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iPhone app today by clicking on the

1234
00:52:21,220 --> 00:52:18,700
banner at GCN live.com again that's GCN

1235
00:52:23,230 --> 00:52:21,230
live.com we the people grow cotton wheat

1236
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:23,240
fabric engraving can bed strips and

1237
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:24,890
fibers to protect from counterfeit than

1238
00:52:27,550 --> 00:52:26,690
carding to a private bank having a led

1239
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:27,560
back at interest

1240
00:52:31,180 --> 00:52:29,330
forcing taxes to surface debt this

1241
00:52:32,650 --> 00:52:31,190
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1242
00:52:34,270 --> 00:52:32,660
stating a central bank issuing the

1243
00:52:35,410 --> 00:52:34,280
public currency is a greater menace to

1244
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,420
the liberties of the people than a

1245
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:36,800
standing army today understand I'm

1246
00:52:40,030 --> 00:52:38,210
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1247
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:40,040
that explains our monetary system call

1248
00:52:46,690 --> 00:52:43,490
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1249
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:46,700
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1250
00:52:57,460 --> 00:52:55,520
that's 800 6 8 6 2 2 3 7 welcome back to

1251
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:57,470
the podcast the gold standard of

1252
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:00,800
paranormal radio and now here's Jean

1253
00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:09,650
our number two of the para cast I'm Jean

1254
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:12,390
Steinberg we have two coats for the

1255
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:14,460
price of one Nick red for an offer of

1256
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:16,530
the NASA conspiracies busy little bee

1257
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:18,720
coming up with another great book Chris

1258
00:53:24,110 --> 00:53:21,210
O'Brien is our co-host Chris has taken

1259
00:53:26,690 --> 00:53:24,120
huge numbers of notes about this book

1260
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:26,700
and you know we want to go through some

1261
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:29,520
of that for possibly this hour emphasize

1262
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:31,410
all the questions you have and then

1263
00:53:34,220 --> 00:53:32,610
maybe on a little bit later we have a

1264
00:53:45,260 --> 00:53:34,230
few questions from our forums we'll ask

1265
00:53:47,450 --> 00:53:45,270
Chris some good ones you okay no really

1266
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:47,460
I'm fascinated by by some of the stuff

1267
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:49,050
that's in this book and one of the

1268
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:50,490
things we were talking about the

1269
00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:54,210
Challenger space shuttles in the

1270
00:53:57,530 --> 00:53:55,740
challenge and the colombians stuff and

1271
00:54:02,240 --> 00:53:57,540
there's a really interesting story in

1272
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:02,250
here that evidently in 83 Carl Sagan

1273
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:05,370
received a really interesting mysterious

1274
00:54:11,980 --> 00:54:09,210
handwritten note that had some pretty

1275
00:54:15,590 --> 00:54:11,990
interesting predictions in it that

1276
00:54:18,860 --> 00:54:15,600
included the the crash of wood the

1277
00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:18,870
explosion of the of the the Columbia

1278
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:21,660
space you know Space Shuttle

1279
00:54:29,150 --> 00:54:24,650
and you want to talk about that the name

1280
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:29,160
M Springfield just in itself is very

1281
00:54:34,370 --> 00:54:32,250
suggestive of course you know the same

1282
00:54:35,450 --> 00:54:34,380
name is Leonard Stringfield but why

1283
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:35,460
don't you just that a little bit because

1284
00:54:39,650 --> 00:54:37,650
that's a really interesting story yeah I

1285
00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:39,660
one of one of the things I often do you

1286
00:54:43,070 --> 00:54:41,460
know what I'm investigating government

1287
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:43,080
involvement in different things is to

1288
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:44,880
use the Freedom of Information Act to

1289
00:54:49,490 --> 00:54:46,770
try and secure files from government

1290
00:54:52,430 --> 00:54:49,500
agencies and one of the things that sort

1291
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:52,440
of really surprised me was when I

1292
00:54:58,250 --> 00:54:55,440
actually found out a couple of years ago

1293
00:55:00,500 --> 00:54:58,260
that the FBI had been involved in an

1294
00:55:04,130 --> 00:55:00,510
investigation that suggested that maybe

1295
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:04,140
the first space shuttle disaster

1296
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:06,930
Challenger when you exploded in 86 and

1297
00:55:13,490 --> 00:55:10,970
killed all the crew on takeoff the FBI

1298
00:55:16,070 --> 00:55:13,500
deeply investigated the case because a

1299
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:16,080
lot of rumors floating around about was

1300
00:55:19,730 --> 00:55:18,210
it sabotage enough so I filed a request

1301
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:19,740
with the FBI to get

1302
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:22,530
all of this file and I've got an

1303
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:25,140
extensive file about two inches thick it

1304
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:26,730
talks about all the different conspiracy

1305
00:55:34,070 --> 00:55:29,760
theories surrounding both the 1986

1306
00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:34,080
explosion and Columbia's destruction in

1307
00:55:41,330 --> 00:55:38,190
2003 but also it referenced this weird

1308
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:41,340
story concerning Carl Sagan of course

1309
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:43,050
you know is one of the the formative

1310
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:45,660
people I suppose who sort of blended you

1311
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:47,610
know mainstream science for the popular

1312
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:49,500
culture you know he did a very skillful

1313
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:51,450
way where the average person on the

1314
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:53,850
street you know could understand

1315
00:55:59,950 --> 00:55:55,920
appreciate and also be entertained by

1316
00:56:02,480 --> 00:55:59,960
you know sort of scientific issues and

1317
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:02,490
one of the things that was contained in

1318
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:05,130
the file was this letter that had been

1319
00:56:11,090 --> 00:56:07,170
sent by some mysterious person named

1320
00:56:13,570 --> 00:56:11,100
Springfield to Sagan in 1983 that made

1321
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:13,580
all all sorts of prophecies about the

1322
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:17,250
Columbia Space Shuttle getting destroyed

1323
00:56:23,359 --> 00:56:20,010
which ultimately it did and also like a

1324
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:23,369
third world war breaking out and which

1325
00:56:26,990 --> 00:56:25,200
you know didn't or least hasn't happened

1326
00:56:28,550 --> 00:56:27,000
yet unless you consider you know we're

1327
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,560
in the third world war with the war on

1328
00:56:32,690 --> 00:56:30,480
terror but actually made a number of

1329
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:32,700
intriguing statements you know the

1330
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:34,530
Columbia would be destroyed which

1331
00:56:40,790 --> 00:56:37,440
eventually was you know exploded in 2003

1332
00:56:43,820 --> 00:56:40,800
over Texas also talked about how Poland

1333
00:56:47,210 --> 00:56:43,830
would be free by 1990 which he was you

1334
00:56:48,590 --> 00:56:47,220
know with the whole perestroika and you

1335
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:48,600
know breaking away from the former

1336
00:56:56,540 --> 00:56:53,220
Soviet Union etc and very very weird

1337
00:56:58,820 --> 00:56:56,550
letter to the extent that's Sagan

1338
00:57:00,740 --> 00:56:58,830
contacted the FBI who made a number of

1339
00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:00,750
inquiries couldn't track down who this

1340
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:03,119
Springfield person was though he's very

1341
00:57:07,460 --> 00:57:05,330
much sort of an apocalyptic

1342
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:07,470
communication that was centered to

1343
00:57:12,170 --> 00:57:10,650
saying and you know warning about the

1344
00:57:14,930 --> 00:57:12,180
destruction of a space shuttle the end

1345
00:57:18,890 --> 00:57:14,940
of the end of civilization nuclear war

1346
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:18,900
etc and and files cans he was taken very

1347
00:57:23,810 --> 00:57:22,020
seriously by the FBI because it was

1348
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:23,820
suggesting that one of NASA space

1349
00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:26,240
shuttles would be destroyed and

1350
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:28,710
ironically almost 20 years to the day

1351
00:57:33,470 --> 00:57:31,710
the Columbia space shuttle was destroyed

1352
00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:33,480
just as the person

1353
00:57:37,609 --> 00:57:35,880
acclaimed in this particular letter so

1354
00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:37,619
what do you think of that gene you know

1355
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:39,720
these letters always seem to come up

1356
00:57:45,260 --> 00:57:43,200
after the fact you know they turn up but

1357
00:57:47,140 --> 00:57:45,270
before the fact we don't see the

1358
00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:47,150
predictions or if you ever come true

1359
00:57:50,750 --> 00:57:49,500
that's right I mean this is one of the

1360
00:57:53,329 --> 00:57:50,760
intriguing areas you know not just

1361
00:57:56,420 --> 00:57:53,339
talking about the Space Shuttle but

1362
00:57:58,089 --> 00:57:56,430
Poland being you know free of the Soviet

1363
00:58:01,370 --> 00:57:58,099
you know who would have thought in 83

1364
00:58:02,990 --> 00:58:01,380
there wouldn't be a Soviet Union or you

1365
00:58:05,870 --> 00:58:03,000
know Poland wouldn't be under sort of

1366
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:05,880
the grip of the Kremlin or whatever now

1367
00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:08,250
certainly there are some predictions

1368
00:58:11,450 --> 00:58:10,020
that didn't country I mean one was that

1369
00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:11,460
was may was that New York and San

1370
00:58:15,829 --> 00:58:13,950
Francisco would sort of completely

1371
00:58:21,290 --> 00:58:15,839
collapse into the oceans and a third

1372
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:21,300
world war would begin in 1998 you know

1373
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:23,369
and also the idea that the world would

1374
00:58:27,940 --> 00:58:25,710
be poisoned by some sort of weird virus

1375
00:58:30,650 --> 00:58:27,950
well that didn't happen but I mean

1376
00:58:32,089 --> 00:58:30,660
barely a day goes by now but we don't

1377
00:58:34,220 --> 00:58:32,099
hear on the news oh you needed

1378
00:58:37,130 --> 00:58:34,230
inoculation against this virus that

1379
00:58:41,569 --> 00:58:37,140
virus you know and so everybody needs

1380
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:41,579
brothers virus so you know the were a

1381
00:58:48,140 --> 00:58:45,210
number of weird sort of precursors in

1382
00:58:49,730 --> 00:58:48,150
this prediction to certain things that

1383
00:58:52,069 --> 00:58:49,740
had actually occurred in the last few

1384
00:58:54,380 --> 00:58:52,079
years but I mean that's just part of the

1385
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:54,390
story I mean when it comes to the

1386
00:59:00,290 --> 00:58:56,220
disruption of Challenger which occurred

1387
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,300
in January 86 just after takeoff this is

1388
00:59:06,319 --> 00:59:02,640
probably the most extensive aspect of

1389
00:59:09,620 --> 00:59:06,329
the FBI's investigation of space shuttle

1390
00:59:11,540 --> 00:59:09,630
based conspiracies a number of people in

1391
00:59:13,790 --> 00:59:11,550
the wake of the Challenger destruction

1392
00:59:16,250 --> 00:59:13,800
in January 86 approached the FBI and

1393
00:59:18,530 --> 00:59:16,260
said you know I was watching on TV and I

1394
00:59:21,470 --> 00:59:18,540
saw what looked like a laser-guided

1395
00:59:24,980 --> 00:59:21,480
weapon hit the fuel tank of the space

1396
00:59:27,620 --> 00:59:24,990
shuttle now of course the FBI you know

1397
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:27,630
inevitably and immediately began

1398
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:29,609
investigating these stories and and they

1399
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:31,140
weren't coming the interesting thing is

1400
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:32,400
they weren't coming from crazy people

1401
00:59:36,589 --> 00:59:34,650
one of them was actually somebody who

1402
00:59:38,270 --> 00:59:36,599
lived in the dallas-fort Worth area who

1403
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:38,280
which he where I lives I've been trying

1404
00:59:41,569 --> 00:59:39,599
to track the person down but haven't

1405
00:59:44,089 --> 00:59:41,579
found them yet who said that who

1406
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:44,099
actually worked in the video production

1407
00:59:47,269 --> 00:59:46,290
industry and said you know he'd analyzed

1408
00:59:49,789 --> 00:59:47,279
the footage slow

1409
00:59:52,839 --> 00:59:49,799
get down blown it up etc and see what

1410
00:59:56,539 --> 00:59:52,849
look like a laser type weapon or

1411
00:59:59,569 --> 00:59:56,549
laser-guided device hit one of the field

1412
01:00:01,759 --> 00:59:59,579
hit the fuel tank and exploded the FBI

1413
01:00:04,009 --> 01:00:01,769
was so concerned that she sent agents

1414
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:04,019
out to the man's home not to threaten

1415
01:00:06,529 --> 01:00:05,130
you or anything like that but they sat

1416
01:00:09,859 --> 01:00:06,539
down with him in his living room and

1417
01:00:11,569 --> 01:00:09,869
watched the 40 Chinese TV you know and

1418
01:00:14,239 --> 01:00:11,579
ask him you know can you replay this but

1419
01:00:17,419 --> 01:00:14,249
it can you replay that bit and and I

1420
01:00:19,429 --> 01:00:17,429
think precisely what he did one of the

1421
01:00:22,669 --> 01:00:19,439
weirdest stories was a guy who was

1422
01:00:24,649 --> 01:00:22,679
clearly deluded in by the FBI's own

1423
01:00:27,319 --> 01:00:24,659
admission you know he'd made a number of

1424
01:00:30,979 --> 01:00:27,329
claims previously the certain space

1425
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:30,989
shuttle missions would be sabotage but

1426
01:00:36,140 --> 01:00:33,599
literally 24 hours before Challenger

1427
01:00:38,269 --> 01:00:36,150
exploded he phoned his local news

1428
01:00:40,009 --> 01:00:38,279
station which was in Florida and said

1429
01:00:41,809 --> 01:00:40,019
you know that the Space Shuttle he's

1430
01:00:44,029 --> 01:00:41,819
going to explode on takeoff and they're

1431
01:00:46,279 --> 01:00:44,039
like well whatever but they were

1432
01:00:48,649 --> 01:00:46,289
sufficiently confirmed concerned to at

1433
01:00:51,380 --> 01:00:48,659
least contact the FBI which they did and

1434
01:00:53,630 --> 01:00:51,390
of course 24 hours later the shuttle

1435
01:00:56,449 --> 01:00:53,640
really did explode and the FBI were like

1436
01:00:58,329 --> 01:00:56,459
well you know the guy's crazy but this

1437
01:01:00,829 --> 01:00:58,339
time he actually got it right and

1438
01:01:03,439 --> 01:01:00,839
certainly the weirdest story of all that

1439
01:01:06,499 --> 01:01:03,449
the FBI investigated it was a case of a

1440
01:01:09,409 --> 01:01:06,509
woman who said that she being contacted

1441
01:01:11,659 --> 01:01:09,419
by what's actually described in the

1442
01:01:14,179 --> 01:01:11,669
files of paranormal beings that's how

1443
01:01:16,519 --> 01:01:14,189
the FBI FBI describes it Perrin all

1444
01:01:18,620 --> 01:01:16,529
beings almost I channeled I mean I do

1445
01:01:21,289 --> 01:01:18,630
literally mean channeled information

1446
01:01:23,509 --> 01:01:21,299
into her head that the Space Shuttle is

1447
01:01:26,419 --> 01:01:23,519
going to be destroyed 48 hours from

1448
01:01:28,699 --> 01:01:26,429
there and she contacted the the FBI and

1449
01:01:30,409 --> 01:01:28,709
again the FBI went out to interview and

1450
01:01:31,609 --> 01:01:30,419
said well you know ask questions along

1451
01:01:33,079 --> 01:01:31,619
the lines of well who are these

1452
01:01:35,630 --> 01:01:33,089
paranormal beings where are you getting

1453
01:01:37,609 --> 01:01:35,640
your information from and it was you

1454
01:01:40,189 --> 01:01:37,619
know a case of well they they channel

1455
01:01:41,749 --> 01:01:40,199
the information to me and what I find

1456
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:41,759
the interesting about this particular

1457
01:01:50,299 --> 01:01:46,529
story is that 27 years later securely 24

1458
01:01:53,059 --> 01:01:50,309
years later no less than 28 pages of

1459
01:01:55,130 --> 01:01:53,069
this particular investigation into this

1460
01:01:58,219 --> 01:01:55,140
paranormal angle of the Space Shuttle

1461
01:02:01,070 --> 01:01:58,229
explosion 28 pages of the documentation

1462
01:02:02,420 --> 01:02:01,080
is still classified in the interesting

1463
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:02,430
the specific interest of national

1464
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:05,910
security well so clearly you know

1465
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:08,010
there's some there is some weirdness

1466
01:02:15,050 --> 01:02:12,090
attached to the Challenger accident in

1467
01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:15,060
1986 even if some people you know go

1468
01:02:19,340 --> 01:02:17,040
with the idea that it was all just a

1469
01:02:21,530 --> 01:02:19,350
tragic accident we'll get into more of

1470
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:21,540
the Challenger accident and a lot more

1471
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:24,570
our co-host Nick Redfern is author of

1472
01:02:29,570 --> 01:02:27,210
the NASA conspiracies our other co-host

1473
01:02:46,850 --> 01:02:29,580
is Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

1474
01:02:51,779 --> 01:02:48,950
[Music]

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01:02:53,789 --> 01:02:51,789
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01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:07,480
network this is actually you're

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listening to the podcast the gold

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01:07:22,620 --> 01:07:20,590
standard of crown over radio you're in

1577
01:07:24,330 --> 01:07:22,630
the power cast I'm Jean Steinberg we're

1578
01:07:27,060 --> 01:07:24,340
talking about the NASA conspiracies by

1579
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:27,070
Nick Redfern I'm Jean Steinberg Chris

1580
01:07:32,250 --> 01:07:29,770
O'Brien has been asking some very

1581
01:07:34,230 --> 01:07:32,260
pointed questions let's pursue Nick

1582
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:34,240
another thing that comes up from time to

1583
01:07:38,580 --> 01:07:37,450
time by in my research is some pretty

1584
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:38,590
interesting events that have occurred

1585
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:40,890
down in South America over the years

1586
01:07:45,930 --> 01:07:43,330
pertaining to what appear on the surface

1587
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:45,940
to be some sort of either atmospheric

1588
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:48,010
anomalies or if you want to get

1589
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:50,400
conspiratorial about it the crash of

1590
01:07:56,910 --> 01:07:54,250
alien saucers or alien technology of

1591
01:08:00,570 --> 01:07:56,920
course Vahini a-- springs to mind and

1592
01:08:02,940 --> 01:08:00,580
there was mention at the time of the

1593
01:08:05,790 --> 01:08:02,950
Mohini incident that NASA personnel

1594
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:05,800
was somehow summoned to the Virginia

1595
01:08:10,530 --> 01:08:08,530
site and then also there was a I think a

1596
01:08:12,990 --> 01:08:10,540
crash in in Bolivia that that you talk

1597
01:08:15,330 --> 01:08:13,000
about in your book what is NASA's role

1598
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:15,340
do you think in the in terms of

1599
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:17,770
assisting other militaries around the

1600
01:08:23,039 --> 01:08:20,770
world other governments for events like

1601
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:23,049
this there seems to be some sort of

1602
01:08:27,450 --> 01:08:25,120
indication that NASA is involved in a

1603
01:08:29,099 --> 01:08:27,460
sort of transnational fashion you want

1604
01:08:32,370 --> 01:08:29,109
you want to discuss that yeah that's a

1605
01:08:34,890 --> 01:08:32,380
very good question good issue I mean you

1606
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:34,900
know the thing is with NASA of course if

1607
01:08:38,999 --> 01:08:37,450
UFOs are nuts-and-bolts craft and some

1608
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:39,009
of them have crashed were you know

1609
01:08:44,910 --> 01:08:40,690
obviously it's a controversial issue but

1610
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:44,920
this has taken place then NASA obviously

1611
01:08:48,450 --> 01:08:46,960
is one of the agencies like NORAD for

1612
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:48,460
example that is at the forefront of

1613
01:08:53,550 --> 01:08:51,040
tracking what's going on in the

1614
01:08:57,780 --> 01:08:53,560
atmosphere or in near-earth orbits or

1615
01:08:59,999 --> 01:08:57,790
you know at a space etc now of course

1616
01:09:03,030 --> 01:09:00,009
you know NASA doesn't just track its own

1617
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:03,040
space satellites and spacecrafts it's

1618
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:06,730
also you know involved in tracking the

1619
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:08,319
spacecraft in space satellites of

1620
01:09:12,180 --> 01:09:10,210
foreign nations you know you look at

1621
01:09:14,820 --> 01:09:12,190
with the Russians and the Chinese or

1622
01:09:18,030 --> 01:09:14,830
wherever you know we know that they send

1623
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:18,040
up as we do space satellites the whose

1624
01:09:23,039 --> 01:09:20,560
sole role if you like is to spy on

1625
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:23,049
foreign nations you know spy satellites

1626
01:09:30,269 --> 01:09:26,560
with extensive recording equipment you

1627
01:09:33,539 --> 01:09:30,279
know cameras etc and for that reason you

1628
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:33,549
know NASA has its eyes on the skies at

1629
01:09:38,459 --> 01:09:36,850
all times if for example one particular

1630
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:38,469
agency says you know we've had a report

1631
01:09:44,340 --> 01:09:41,650
of something crashing to the ground it

1632
01:09:46,620 --> 01:09:44,350
looks like some sort of spacecraft we

1633
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:46,630
don't know what it is is it one of yours

1634
01:09:51,390 --> 01:09:49,210
and NASA silver blaze not ours and then

1635
01:09:53,309 --> 01:09:51,400
the Air Force whoever says well I'd

1636
01:09:55,050 --> 01:09:53,319
attract any sort of Russian craft we

1637
01:09:58,020 --> 01:09:55,060
enter in the atmosphere and they say no

1638
01:09:59,729 --> 01:09:58,030
well then it's like that takes the whole

1639
01:10:04,080 --> 01:09:59,739
controversy to a completely different

1640
01:10:06,330 --> 01:10:04,090
level so well what is it and you know I

1641
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:06,340
think this is this is an important issue

1642
01:10:14,910 --> 01:10:09,610
to remember or to focus upon the idea

1643
01:10:16,650 --> 01:10:14,920
that NASA often very much consulted and

1644
01:10:19,380 --> 01:10:16,660
questioned by the intelligence community

1645
01:10:20,939 --> 01:10:19,390
because they're the ideal people to you

1646
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,949
know say oh well yeh was one of our

1647
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:22,960
craft that went out of control and if he

1648
01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:25,449
wasn't then you know we need to find out

1649
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:27,070
what he was and this is certainly the

1650
01:10:31,229 --> 01:10:28,480
case with this incident be you

1651
01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:31,239
mentioning Bolivia this is a very

1652
01:10:35,220 --> 01:10:33,430
strange story it's a significant one

1653
01:10:37,890 --> 01:10:35,230
because again in this case that I was

1654
01:10:40,970 --> 01:10:37,900
able to secure official documentation

1655
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:40,980
from oh and I should say from NASA and

1656
01:10:47,310 --> 01:10:45,130
basically occurred in May 1978 when some

1657
01:10:49,770 --> 01:10:47,320
sort of object was reported in the

1658
01:10:52,590 --> 01:10:49,780
Bolivian media as having crashed in a

1659
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:52,600
remote part of Bolivia on a hillside and

1660
01:10:56,939 --> 01:10:54,130
it was described as like an egg-shaped

1661
01:10:59,400 --> 01:10:56,949
object not actually a large one but

1662
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:59,410
somewhere in the region of 12 to 15 feet

1663
01:11:03,180 --> 01:11:01,120
some people said in lame to other people

1664
01:11:05,310 --> 01:11:03,190
said in diameter so we're not really

1665
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:05,320
sure of the shape but you know the

1666
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:07,510
reference to a diameter almost makes it

1667
01:11:11,580 --> 01:11:09,360
sound like a saucer-shaped object

1668
01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:11,590
essentially what happened was that the

1669
01:11:15,870 --> 01:11:13,840
story started doing the rounds we

1670
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:15,880
actually even reached the the eyes and

1671
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:18,730
ears of UPI and you know stories were

1672
01:11:25,180 --> 01:11:23,410
put out on the new circuits etc and the

1673
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:25,190
actually got hold of a

1674
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:27,440
a whole variety of files on this room

1675
01:11:32,140 --> 01:11:30,050
from NASA which talked about this object

1676
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:32,150
coming down on this remote area of

1677
01:11:38,170 --> 01:11:35,710
hillsides in Bolivia in may 78 and NASA

1678
01:11:40,959 --> 01:11:38,180
answering questions from the CIA another

1679
01:11:42,820 --> 01:11:40,969
CIO asking you know is it a satellite is

1680
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:42,830
a false alarm and NASA is saying well

1681
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:44,449
it's nothing of ours and we're not

1682
01:11:48,820 --> 01:11:46,400
tracked anything Russian coming down and

1683
01:11:51,100 --> 01:11:48,830
then the rumors started circulating that

1684
01:11:53,740 --> 01:11:51,110
personnel were sent from NASA to Bolivia

1685
01:11:56,650 --> 01:11:53,750
to check out the area and that they may

1686
01:11:58,330 --> 01:11:56,660
actually have even been deceived by the

1687
01:11:59,979 --> 01:11:58,340
Bolivian government that the Bolivian

1688
01:12:02,650 --> 01:11:59,989
government may wanted to recover this

1689
01:12:05,050 --> 01:12:02,660
object for themselves and keep NASA out

1690
01:12:06,430 --> 01:12:05,060
of the loop and by default the entire US

1691
01:12:08,260 --> 01:12:06,440
government out of the loop which which

1692
01:12:11,189 --> 01:12:08,270
actually may have happened it's sort of

1693
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:11,199
a bit of a gray area so to speak but

1694
01:12:17,260 --> 01:12:14,719
certainly the documentation from the CIA

1695
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:17,270
and NASA does talk about some sort of

1696
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:19,840
object coming down even about impact

1697
01:12:23,620 --> 01:12:21,770
markings on the ground where it looks

1698
01:12:26,140 --> 01:12:23,630
like somebody hit the ground and slid

1699
01:12:28,630 --> 01:12:26,150
down the side of the hill but also with

1700
01:12:32,260 --> 01:12:28,640
no evidence at all that this was a

1701
01:12:33,930 --> 01:12:32,270
terrestrial craft now of course the

1702
01:12:37,180 --> 01:12:33,940
documents only tell part of the story

1703
01:12:39,220 --> 01:12:37,190
the issue of NASA personnel going out

1704
01:12:42,070 --> 01:12:39,230
there and secretly being asked to

1705
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:42,080
evaluate the nature of this craft that

1706
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:43,850
comes from sources like Leonard

1707
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:45,530
Stringfield who said he'd been told

1708
01:12:49,959 --> 01:12:48,050
certain data by various whistleblowers

1709
01:12:51,700 --> 01:12:49,969
this is an intriguing case you know in

1710
01:12:52,990 --> 01:12:51,710
some cases you could argue it's more

1711
01:12:55,020 --> 01:12:53,000
important than Roswell because we

1712
01:12:57,250 --> 01:12:55,030
actually have official documentation

1713
01:13:00,310 --> 01:12:57,260
talking about the recovery of a craft

1714
01:13:01,930 --> 01:13:00,320
that no one could identify but then you

1715
01:13:04,330 --> 01:13:01,940
know you enter this sort of black hole

1716
01:13:06,550 --> 01:13:04,340
of where everybody denies it and

1717
01:13:08,380 --> 01:13:06,560
everybody kind of just goes home as well

1718
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:08,390
well we looked we didn't find anything

1719
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:10,370
and you know that's one of the

1720
01:13:15,070 --> 01:13:12,530
frustrating things we faced with but

1721
01:13:16,990 --> 01:13:15,080
certainly the case itself was it was a

1722
01:13:20,290 --> 01:13:17,000
very very intriguing one but another one

1723
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:20,300
that now some personnel were I guess by

1724
01:13:26,860 --> 01:13:22,370
inference implicated was the Virginia

1725
01:13:28,300 --> 01:13:26,870
incident in 96 in Brazil and did you do

1726
01:13:29,890 --> 01:13:28,310
any research on that particular one

1727
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:29,900
because there were claims and NASA

1728
01:13:35,610 --> 01:13:33,410
personnel were involved in the I guess

1729
01:13:37,689 --> 01:13:35,620
of somehow in the autopsy of the

1730
01:13:38,350 --> 01:13:37,699
creatures that supposedly took place at

1731
01:13:42,460 --> 01:13:38,360
the hospital

1732
01:13:44,530 --> 01:13:42,470
and and there was also the possibility

1733
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:44,540
that the NASA personnel have been

1734
01:13:49,930 --> 01:13:46,850
involved in other sort of landings or

1735
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:49,940
crashed retrieval type operations have

1736
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:52,490
you been able to ascertain the extent of

1737
01:13:57,940 --> 01:13:54,770
their involvement in other cases yeah I

1738
01:14:00,100 --> 01:13:57,950
mean I did look into the vein in your

1739
01:14:01,750 --> 01:14:00,110
case and whatever the only reason I

1740
01:14:03,670 --> 01:14:01,760
didn't mention that in the book was

1741
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:03,680
specifically because I just could not

1742
01:14:06,970 --> 01:14:05,570
add anything new to it I always feel

1743
01:14:10,090 --> 01:14:06,980
it's important if I'm gonna write a book

1744
01:14:11,530 --> 01:14:10,100
I don't just want to rehash you know

1745
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:11,540
obviously I want to try and bring

1746
01:14:16,090 --> 01:14:12,880
something new to the table

1747
01:14:18,340 --> 01:14:16,100
definitely in terms of crashed UFO

1748
01:14:20,380 --> 01:14:18,350
stories in general I mean there are a

1749
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:20,390
lot of intriguing stories involving NASA

1750
01:14:25,690 --> 01:14:22,610
I mean one of them the most famous one I

1751
01:14:28,980 --> 01:14:25,700
suppose he's the Kecksburg story of 1965

1752
01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:28,990
where some sort of object came down

1753
01:14:34,060 --> 01:14:31,120
outside of Kecksburg Pennsylvania

1754
01:14:35,980 --> 01:14:34,070
December 65 so and so for almost I think

1755
01:14:37,780 --> 01:14:35,990
it's actually like 45 years ago this

1756
01:14:40,180 --> 01:14:37,790
week or last week something like that

1757
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,190
and the story is that some sort of

1758
01:14:44,410 --> 01:14:42,320
object was seen sort of flaming across

1759
01:14:46,060 --> 01:14:44,420
the skies and actually altered its

1760
01:14:48,460 --> 01:14:46,070
trajectory which of course something

1761
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:48,470
like a major I simply cannot do and

1762
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:50,930
crashed in woods just outside of

1763
01:14:56,290 --> 01:14:53,330
Kecksburg and being a relatively small

1764
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:56,300
you know community that rumors soon

1765
01:15:00,100 --> 01:14:58,400
spread around town that something had

1766
01:15:01,930 --> 01:15:00,110
come down and that there was a huge

1767
01:15:03,790 --> 01:15:01,940
military cordon and that NASA and the

1768
01:15:05,860 --> 01:15:03,800
Air Force were there you know keeping

1769
01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:05,870
people away from the area there are

1770
01:15:09,370 --> 01:15:07,520
stories of members of the public who

1771
01:15:13,620 --> 01:15:09,380
secretly managed to get through the

1772
01:15:15,850 --> 01:15:13,630
woods seeing like a Volkswagen car sized

1773
01:15:18,330 --> 01:15:15,860
object that was sort of a cone shape

1774
01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:18,340
that was allegedly loaded aboard like a

1775
01:15:23,770 --> 01:15:21,110
military transport vehicle and you know

1776
01:15:26,140 --> 01:15:23,780
taken to destinations who knows where

1777
01:15:27,850 --> 01:15:26,150
I'll tell you well again two more of the

1778
01:15:29,770 --> 01:15:27,860
Kecksburg incident of course we've had

1779
01:15:32,170 --> 01:15:29,780
Stan Gordon on the power case a couple

1780
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:32,180
of times because he's been so closely

1781
01:15:36,670 --> 01:15:34,850
connected with the research we have Nick

1782
01:15:39,010 --> 01:15:36,680
Redfern author of the NASA conspiracies

1783
01:15:41,860 --> 01:15:39,020
Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm Jean

1784
01:15:46,110 --> 01:15:41,870
Steinberg you're in but but I think

1785
01:15:52,660 --> 01:15:49,290
[Music]

1786
01:15:55,359 --> 01:15:52,670
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1787
01:15:57,660 --> 01:15:55,369
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1788
01:16:00,040 --> 01:15:57,670
relentless perplexing nightmares

1789
01:16:01,959 --> 01:16:00,050
nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1790
01:16:04,209 --> 01:16:01,969
space and of a mysterious woman

1791
01:16:07,359 --> 01:16:04,219
suffering an agony for her devastated

1792
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world a woman not yet born calling

1793
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across centuries to him then a

1794
01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:14,059
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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chance to alter the universe attack of

1796
01:16:21,759 --> 01:16:19,909
the rocket the former fiction editor for

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Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

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Simpson writes the soul of the novel

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attack of the Rockets lies in its heart

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1811
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1878
01:19:42,209 --> 01:19:40,420
six three let's freeze dry guide.com

1879
01:19:44,879 --> 01:19:42,219
or call eight six six four zero four

1880
01:19:46,590 --> 01:19:44,889
three six six three the freeze dry guy

1881
01:19:49,490 --> 01:19:46,600
the best you can buy

1882
01:19:51,709 --> 01:19:49,500
[Music]

1883
01:19:54,150 --> 01:19:51,719
America's number one source for

1884
01:19:55,110 --> 01:19:54,160
independent talk retails for over a

1885
01:20:03,060 --> 01:19:55,120
decade

1886
01:20:07,770 --> 01:20:03,070
we are the gcn radio network hi to the

1887
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:07,780
parrot car we have Chris O'Brien who's

1888
01:20:11,850 --> 01:20:09,610
trying to figure out whether we are or

1889
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:11,860
are not in the power cast I'm Jean

1890
01:20:17,340 --> 01:20:14,290
Steinberg your genial sometimes host

1891
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:17,350
Chris Brian asking questions of Nick

1892
01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:19,330
Redfern our other co-host whose offer

1893
01:20:23,790 --> 01:20:21,280
the NASA conspiracies let me interrupt

1894
01:20:25,950 --> 01:20:23,800
very briefly vote Nick about Kecksburg

1895
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:25,960
is it all possible that was just maybe a

1896
01:20:29,700 --> 01:20:28,239
secret weapon or a secret aircraft not

1897
01:20:31,380 --> 01:20:29,710
something that was weird

1898
01:20:33,209 --> 01:20:31,390
yeah I mean a number of people suggest

1899
01:20:35,610 --> 01:20:33,219
you I mean one of the initial theories

1900
01:20:37,709 --> 01:20:35,620
was the idea that it was a row Soviet

1901
01:20:40,590 --> 01:20:37,719
space probe aerospace vehicle and

1902
01:20:42,959 --> 01:20:40,600
there's actually no doubt that a Soviet

1903
01:20:45,780 --> 01:20:42,969
space vehicle did actually re-enter the

1904
01:20:47,490 --> 01:20:45,790
atmosphere on that very same day as the

1905
01:20:50,340 --> 01:20:47,500
Kecksburg incident but apparently

1906
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:50,350
crashed over Canada or broke off of a

1907
01:20:54,930 --> 01:20:53,290
Canada thing even though NASA today say

1908
01:20:57,300 --> 01:20:54,940
that Kecksburg has nothing to do with

1909
01:20:59,189 --> 01:20:57,310
that incident it is kind of unusual but

1910
01:21:01,530 --> 01:20:59,199
of all the dates when something could

1911
01:21:04,020 --> 01:21:01,540
have come down in Kecksburg it was the

1912
01:21:06,090 --> 01:21:04,030
exact same day but something Soviet did

1913
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:06,100
actually the spacecraft did exceed burn

1914
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:08,530
up in the atmosphere and combat now you

1915
01:21:11,610 --> 01:21:09,850
know people are suggested that the

1916
01:21:13,260 --> 01:21:11,620
object they saw wasn't just a real

1917
01:21:14,550 --> 01:21:13,270
wreckage it was like some sort of in

1918
01:21:17,010 --> 01:21:14,560
fairly intact

1919
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:17,020
vehicle you would imagine that if

1920
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:19,330
something had plummeted from near Earth

1921
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:21,489
orbit and suffered this sort of rigors

1922
01:21:24,570 --> 01:21:22,810
have gone through the atmosphere and

1923
01:21:27,900 --> 01:21:24,580
slamming into the ground it would hardly

1924
01:21:29,459 --> 01:21:27,910
be an intact acorn shape Volkswagen side

1925
01:21:31,830 --> 01:21:29,469
vehicle you know you'd imagine be just

1926
01:21:34,290 --> 01:21:31,840
pummeled and destroyed but that wasn't

1927
01:21:37,260 --> 01:21:34,300
the case and people did say that they

1928
01:21:39,660 --> 01:21:37,270
saw you know the objects alter its

1929
01:21:41,729 --> 01:21:39,670
trajectory the trajectory and direction

1930
01:21:43,380 --> 01:21:41,739
which again you know there's no way that

1931
01:21:45,750 --> 01:21:43,390
any sort of object plowing through the

1932
01:21:47,790 --> 01:21:45,760
atmosphere can do that because you had

1933
01:21:50,010 --> 01:21:47,800
these various anomalies probably a few

1934
01:21:53,189 --> 01:21:50,020
years ago a dedicated researchers own

1935
01:21:55,650 --> 01:21:53,199
Leslie Kean who was sort of deeply aware

1936
01:21:57,810 --> 01:21:55,660
and investigated all the many and varied

1937
01:21:59,939 --> 01:21:57,820
complexities of Tex Berg actually

1938
01:22:01,500 --> 01:21:59,949
brought suit against NASA which is you

1939
01:22:04,980 --> 01:22:01,510
know almost on her

1940
01:22:08,190 --> 01:22:04,990
to try and prise open NASA's files on

1941
01:22:09,750 --> 01:22:08,200
Kecksburg and what NASA actually said

1942
01:22:12,450 --> 01:22:09,760
was was kind of interesting you know

1943
01:22:14,790 --> 01:22:12,460
they didn't deny having files and that

1944
01:22:18,150 --> 01:22:14,800
she did released 30 or 40 pages which

1945
01:22:20,370 --> 01:22:18,160
didn't really you know answer any deep

1946
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:20,380
questions as such they were just sort of

1947
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:23,650
fairly innocuous documentation but what

1948
01:22:25,890 --> 01:22:25,330
was more interesting the more letters we

1949
01:22:28,290 --> 01:22:25,900
pressed

1950
01:22:30,510 --> 01:22:28,300
she found that's you know certain files

1951
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:30,520
that should be existing or that should

1952
01:22:36,090 --> 01:22:34,210
be available NASA couldn't find you know

1953
01:22:38,220 --> 01:22:36,100
and it's kind of like the thing we see

1954
01:22:39,900 --> 01:22:38,230
with the Air Force and and Roswell well

1955
01:22:41,580 --> 01:22:39,910
we went looking and we think it was

1956
01:22:43,110 --> 01:22:41,590
probably a mogul balloon and crash test

1957
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:43,120
dummies but we actually couldn't find

1958
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:44,770
any files you know and that's that's

1959
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:47,410
what NASA is saying it's like okay you

1960
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:48,850
know we don't deny that certain file

1961
01:22:53,700 --> 01:22:51,250
should have existed on various issues

1962
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:53,710
that might conceivably be related to

1963
01:22:58,980 --> 01:22:56,650
texture but we couldn't find him you

1964
01:23:01,940 --> 01:22:58,990
know and it's it's almost like a damage

1965
01:23:04,710 --> 01:23:01,950
control where agency don't want to deny

1966
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:04,720
the existence of something presumably

1967
01:23:08,250 --> 01:23:06,370
because it might surface later on and

1968
01:23:10,650 --> 01:23:08,260
make them look bad so they say we

1969
01:23:12,090 --> 01:23:10,660
research we cannot find it now a lot of

1970
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:12,100
people presume that means well there's

1971
01:23:16,230 --> 01:23:13,570
nothing to find but he told us like

1972
01:23:18,060 --> 01:23:16,240
they're a very cleverly worded thing you

1973
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:18,070
say well we couldn't find anything but

1974
01:23:22,590 --> 01:23:19,570
by definition that doesn't mean he

1975
01:23:24,750 --> 01:23:22,600
doesn't exist or some other arm of NASA

1976
01:23:25,910 --> 01:23:24,760
isn't hiding it just simply means that

1977
01:23:28,620 --> 01:23:25,920
the people who did the search

1978
01:23:30,510 --> 01:23:28,630
potentially aren't cleared to know what

1979
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:30,520
was going on I think that that does

1980
01:23:35,580 --> 01:23:33,130
apply to Kecksburg well when it comes to

1981
01:23:37,290 --> 01:23:35,590
comes to crash retrievals in and that

1982
01:23:40,290 --> 01:23:37,300
sort of thing Kecksburg I think is is a

1983
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:40,300
very good is a classic case because we

1984
01:23:43,500 --> 01:23:42,310
do have AI witnesses a lot of

1985
01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:43,510
eyewitnesses we do have some

1986
01:23:49,470 --> 01:23:46,510
documentation something obviously did

1987
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:49,480
happen there of course then Gordon as as

1988
01:23:52,770 --> 01:23:51,250
Jane mentioned has looked into that

1989
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:52,780
extensively in fact that was his very

1990
01:23:57,450 --> 01:23:55,120
first case as an investigator what are

1991
01:24:00,120 --> 01:23:57,460
some of the other examples that we have

1992
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:00,130
for instance you have a chapter in there

1993
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:02,890
about European sightings during the 60s

1994
01:24:06,030 --> 01:24:03,610
and 70s

1995
01:24:09,510 --> 01:24:06,040
what sort of involvement did you find

1996
01:24:11,070 --> 01:24:09,520
the NASA had in those instances yeah

1997
01:24:12,599 --> 01:24:11,080
this is actually really weird I mean one

1998
01:24:15,329 --> 01:24:12,609
of the things I found was

1999
01:24:19,739 --> 01:24:15,339
NASA we've been briefed regularly in the

2000
01:24:22,619 --> 01:24:19,749
period 1973 to 74 on a heart literally a

2001
01:24:25,379 --> 01:24:22,629
massive scale of UFO activity that has

2002
01:24:27,209 --> 01:24:25,389
taken place in Spain now this is sort of

2003
01:24:30,179 --> 01:24:27,219
very much like sort of the old school

2004
01:24:33,869 --> 01:24:30,189
still who we get in the early 50s with

2005
01:24:35,879 --> 01:24:33,879
UFO landings aliens taking soil samples

2006
01:24:39,089 --> 01:24:35,889
you know vehicle interference cases with

2007
01:24:41,609 --> 01:24:39,099
engine stalling on cars etc etc a

2008
01:24:45,029 --> 01:24:41,619
massive wave of sightings from the early

2009
01:24:47,099 --> 01:24:45,039
part of 73 right through to late 1974

2010
01:24:48,779 --> 01:24:47,109
the sort of thing we don't really see

2011
01:24:51,029 --> 01:24:48,789
today but that we did see you know in

2012
01:24:53,189 --> 01:24:51,039
the classic waves in the US as I said in

2013
01:24:55,229 --> 01:24:53,199
the 50s 60s and 70s what I found

2014
01:24:57,479 --> 01:24:55,239
particularly intriguing you know is all

2015
01:24:58,859 --> 01:24:57,489
these cases of like vehicle interference

2016
01:25:00,779 --> 01:24:58,869
where somebody's driving down the road

2017
01:25:02,909 --> 01:25:00,789
late at night in their car you know the

2018
01:25:05,069 --> 01:25:02,919
lights go out the engine fails this

2019
01:25:06,750 --> 01:25:05,079
craft comes down and these entities come

2020
01:25:09,540 --> 01:25:06,760
towards the vehicle the person has

2021
01:25:11,579 --> 01:25:09,550
missing time etc or you know somebody

2022
01:25:13,739 --> 01:25:11,589
just sees these weird little figures

2023
01:25:16,109 --> 01:25:13,749
kind of scooping up dirt in the side of

2024
01:25:17,969 --> 01:25:16,119
the road Oh things that you would expect

2025
01:25:19,949 --> 01:25:17,979
a scene like a Donald Cahill book in the

2026
01:25:21,899 --> 01:25:19,959
50s or whatever not only were they

2027
01:25:24,929 --> 01:25:21,909
happening in Spain in the early 70s but

2028
01:25:26,909 --> 01:25:24,939
NASA has been fully briefed on all these

2029
01:25:29,579 --> 01:25:26,919
incidents and of course you know you

2030
01:25:32,549 --> 01:25:29,589
have to ask the question why would NASA

2031
01:25:35,879 --> 01:25:32,559
be so interested in ground-based

2032
01:25:38,879 --> 01:25:35,889
sightings of UFOs in Spain for an agency

2033
01:25:40,679 --> 01:25:38,889
whose role predominantly is the realm of

2034
01:25:42,779 --> 01:25:40,689
outer space you know I could understand

2035
01:25:45,060 --> 01:25:42,789
that NASA would be interested in

2036
01:25:47,459 --> 01:25:45,070
astronaut sightings and things like that

2037
01:25:50,369 --> 01:25:47,469
that the very notion of you know not

2038
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:50,379
even American sightings but sightings in

2039
01:25:54,509 --> 01:25:52,719
Spain it sort of begs the question is

2040
01:25:58,469 --> 01:25:54,519
there some sort of clandestine group

2041
01:26:01,319 --> 01:25:58,479
within NASA not only takes note of outer

2042
01:26:03,270 --> 01:26:01,329
space issues relative to UFOs and alien

2043
01:26:04,739 --> 01:26:03,280
life but actually what's going on down

2044
01:26:06,329 --> 01:26:04,749
here as well and I you know I think

2045
01:26:08,579 --> 01:26:06,339
that's the possibility I mean some of

2046
01:26:12,359 --> 01:26:08,589
these reports from Spain are sort of

2047
01:26:14,189 --> 01:26:12,369
really really weird I mean you know that

2048
01:26:15,629 --> 01:26:14,199
the sort of thing Lucchese say like

2049
01:26:17,399 --> 01:26:15,639
something that the x-files you know some

2050
01:26:19,829 --> 01:26:17,409
of these cars stopped on the road and

2051
01:26:21,449 --> 01:26:19,839
these seven-foot tall long haired aliens

2052
01:26:23,129 --> 01:26:21,459
stride out of the craft towards their

2053
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:23,139
vehicle and the guy hits the accelerator

2054
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:25,510
spins the wheels and heads off into the

2055
01:26:27,890 --> 01:26:25,920
fast

2056
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:27,900
while these alien 2 stuck on the side

2057
01:26:36,620 --> 01:26:33,210
you know whatever getting flower samples

2058
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:36,630
and dirt samples is this the same time

2059
01:26:40,459 --> 01:26:38,730
parade when they had the the case of the

2060
01:26:42,620 --> 01:26:40,469
aliens that were supposedly living in

2061
01:26:45,290 --> 01:26:42,630
the cave and they were buying milk with

2062
01:26:47,090 --> 01:26:45,300
with gold what was that earlier some of

2063
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:47,100
these Spanish cases kind of get jumbled

2064
01:26:58,520 --> 01:26:55,890
up in my in my my brain because I mean I

2065
01:27:01,370 --> 01:26:58,530
know from you know recollection I think

2066
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:01,380
they from early 73 to the late 74 NASA

2067
01:27:03,979 --> 01:27:03,120
compiled something like Spencer a to

2068
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:03,989
report

2069
01:27:08,900 --> 01:27:07,050
well Spain alone you know profile and

2070
01:27:11,150 --> 01:27:08,910
Close Encounters not lighting the sky

2071
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:11,160
but people you know literally failing

2072
01:27:15,530 --> 01:27:13,199
their lives were in jeopardy by the

2073
01:27:17,900 --> 01:27:15,540
close proximity of either these things

2074
01:27:19,430 --> 01:27:17,910
or these crafts you know I've got a few

2075
01:27:21,860 --> 01:27:19,440
questions here from the forum that I'd

2076
01:27:24,830 --> 01:27:21,870
like to toss that you know the first

2077
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:24,840
it's actually about three questions but

2078
01:27:31,370 --> 01:27:28,530
they all basically kind of referred to

2079
01:27:34,130 --> 01:27:31,380
the same sort of subject and that is the

2080
01:27:35,780 --> 01:27:34,140
actual formation of NASA the question is

2081
01:27:37,310 --> 01:27:35,790
what is the historical makeup of NASA

2082
01:27:39,860 --> 01:27:37,320
regarding groups which form the

2083
01:27:42,380 --> 01:27:39,870
institution in and who actually ran the

2084
01:27:44,990 --> 01:27:42,390
early formation of NASA from 47 to forty

2085
01:27:47,450 --> 01:27:45,000
to fifty three well that's a very good

2086
01:27:49,270 --> 01:27:47,460
question I mean what we really have to

2087
01:27:52,220 --> 01:27:49,280
look at is the fact that he knocked over

2088
01:27:53,930 --> 01:27:52,230
1957 the Soviets launched Sputnik you

2089
01:27:56,689 --> 01:27:53,940
know which really advised of the Cold

2090
01:27:58,100 --> 01:27:56,699
War this really did panic you know the

2091
01:28:00,500 --> 01:27:58,110
Western world and particularly the

2092
01:28:02,419 --> 01:28:00,510
United States you know the idea that

2093
01:28:05,450 --> 01:28:02,429
well we've actually been trumped in my

2094
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:05,460
race face and then later on a dog yeah

2095
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:07,290
then you like of a dog who went up just

2096
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:08,610
you know surely after was an Yuri

2097
01:28:12,380 --> 01:28:10,770
Gagarin the first man in space you know

2098
01:28:15,260 --> 01:28:12,390
they said the first satellite the first

2099
01:28:16,939 --> 01:28:15,270
animal the first man we're all you know

2100
01:28:19,010 --> 01:28:16,949
done by the Russians and you can

2101
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:19,020
understand this was something that

2102
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:21,330
really concerned the United States but

2103
01:28:24,709 --> 01:28:22,890
what happened was that you know this is

2104
01:28:26,209 --> 01:28:24,719
when President Eisenhower dried the

2105
01:28:28,669 --> 01:28:26,219
Eisenhower was you know right in the

2106
01:28:31,010 --> 01:28:28,679
country and he any staffing of a sort of

2107
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:31,020
security record knows that the world is

2108
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:32,850
changing you know the old days of the

2109
01:28:36,350 --> 01:28:33,600
Second World War

2110
01:28:37,850 --> 01:28:36,360
etc were gone that the domain of outer

2111
01:28:39,270 --> 01:28:37,860
space was going to play some sort of

2112
01:28:42,030 --> 01:28:39,280
significant gold in the world

2113
01:28:44,340 --> 01:28:42,040
future and what happened was that prior

2114
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:44,350
to nasi you had an organization called

2115
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:45,970
the National Advisory Committee for

2116
01:28:50,670 --> 01:28:48,490
Aeronautics which essentially was a body

2117
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:50,680
that was delving into the early research

2118
01:28:56,100 --> 01:28:53,890
into rocketry etc in the atmosphere but

2119
01:28:58,380 --> 01:28:56,110
but ultimately you know would go beyond

2120
01:29:00,150 --> 01:28:58,390
the atmosphere the idea was that well

2121
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:00,160
you know the Russians have done this and

2122
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:02,170
they've done that we really need to have

2123
01:29:07,980 --> 01:29:05,050
an equivalent agency that can really

2124
01:29:10,470 --> 01:29:07,990
play a forceful role in outer space

2125
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:10,480
what happened was that by the early

2126
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:13,090
months of 1958 the National Advisory

2127
01:29:17,850 --> 01:29:15,970
Committee for Aeronautics NACA as it was

2128
01:29:20,820 --> 01:29:17,860
known was really sort of digging deep

2129
01:29:23,190 --> 01:29:20,830
into how some sort of agency could run

2130
01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:23,200
the banner if I will fly the flag of

2131
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:25,840
about a Space Research and in April 58

2132
01:29:30,570 --> 01:29:27,730
Eisenhower actually stood before

2133
01:29:31,860 --> 01:29:30,580
Congress and announced the establishment

2134
01:29:34,500 --> 01:29:31,870
of what originally was known as the

2135
01:29:36,510 --> 01:29:34,510
National aeronautical and space agency

2136
01:29:38,580 --> 01:29:36,520
we have net red fur in the books the

2137
01:29:45,650 --> 01:29:38,590
NASA conspiracies Chris O'Brien's the

2138
01:29:45,660 --> 01:29:48,990
[Music]

2139
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:51,760
are you ready to order the official

2140
01:29:56,590 --> 01:29:54,530
power cast t-shirt you asked we answered

2141
01:30:00,640 --> 01:29:56,600
we're now taking orders for the official

2142
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:00,650
para cast t-shirt it comes in white 100%

2143
01:30:05,229 --> 01:30:02,930
cotton the front of it features the same

2144
01:30:08,140 --> 01:30:05,239
logo that we have on our community

2145
01:30:11,770 --> 01:30:08,150
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2224
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in my house right now

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that's not sick from colds or flus and I

2226
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owe that all to extend the fight my name

2227
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is Rick and I'm healthy because of

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extent a fight to get your extent of I'd

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eight seven seven nine to 888 twenty-two

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or visit the website at heart drop calm

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are you tired of searching for great

2234
01:33:58,790 --> 01:33:54,540
talk radio helping you more important

2235
01:34:16,370 --> 01:33:58,800
searching overall we are the gcn radio

2236
01:34:18,530 --> 01:34:16,380
network we have Nick rent firm the book

2237
01:34:21,440 --> 01:34:18,540
is the NASA conspiracies and we're

2238
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:21,450
exploring the conspiracies and UFOs and

2239
01:34:25,670 --> 01:34:23,970
all sorts of great information here

2240
01:34:27,860 --> 01:34:25,680
Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene

2241
01:34:29,780 --> 01:34:27,870
steinberger in the para cast what chris

2242
01:34:32,570 --> 01:34:29,790
has been doing and will do during this

2243
01:34:34,820 --> 01:34:32,580
segment of the power cast is to continue

2244
01:34:37,940 --> 01:34:34,830
to go over questions from our listeners

2245
01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:37,950
so here we go Chris okay here's an

2246
01:34:42,410 --> 01:34:39,360
interesting one Nick I think you'll like

2247
01:34:45,530 --> 01:34:42,420
this we kind of sort of touched on this

2248
01:34:47,570 --> 01:34:45,540
subject a little bit earlier but the

2249
01:34:48,500 --> 01:34:47,580
question is in first it starts out with

2250
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:48,510
an observation

2251
01:34:53,060 --> 01:34:50,370
it seems that over the years NASA's

2252
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:53,070
scope has greatly diminished for those

2253
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:54,480
of us who have grown up with the idea

2254
01:34:57,680 --> 01:34:56,250
that one of the greatest achievements of

2255
01:35:01,370 --> 01:34:57,690
human kind has been manned space

2256
01:35:03,290 --> 01:35:01,380
exploration the agency's acronym might

2257
01:35:07,970 --> 01:35:03,300
as well stand for not as satisfying

2258
01:35:11,950 --> 01:35:07,980
anymore it Steven I love that let's stop

2259
01:35:16,220 --> 01:35:14,690
hold on it seems as if the agency's

2260
01:35:18,260 --> 01:35:16,230
greatest achievements have been from the

2261
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:18,270
last century so with that in mind here's

2262
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:18,930
the question

2263
01:35:23,450 --> 01:35:21,570
do you see NASA as being the powerful

2264
01:35:26,150 --> 01:35:23,460
clandestine organization that it once

2265
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:26,160
was or has it perhaps become so

2266
01:35:29,300 --> 01:35:27,810
powerfully clandestine that it's

2267
01:35:30,890 --> 01:35:29,310
actually doing all sorts of amazing

2268
01:35:34,250 --> 01:35:30,900
things while giving us the impression

2269
01:35:40,970 --> 01:35:34,260
that it is practically as useful as a

2270
01:35:43,070 --> 01:35:40,980
bores feet I'm not entirely sure it's

2271
01:35:45,500 --> 01:35:43,080
that simplicity but I mean I would agree

2272
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:45,510
but I think you know when the moon

2273
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:47,610
landings occurred there's a very good

2274
01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:50,250
argument for saying that it was almost

2275
01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:53,280
like an anticlimax afterwards well I

2276
01:35:57,920 --> 01:35:56,250
think the important thing that should

2277
01:35:59,390 --> 01:35:57,930
have happened or the most critical thing

2278
01:36:01,550 --> 01:35:59,400
was that NASA

2279
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:01,560
fertilised on it and said you know when

2280
01:36:05,149 --> 01:36:03,570
Kennedy said in 62 we're gonna land a

2281
01:36:07,310 --> 01:36:05,159
man on the moon before the end of the

2282
01:36:09,380 --> 01:36:07,320
sixties we're gonna have a man presence

2283
01:36:11,419 --> 01:36:09,390
on the moon permanent presence by the

2284
01:36:14,870 --> 01:36:11,429
start of 21st century and they're gonna

2285
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:14,880
have astronauts going to Mars by 2020

2286
01:36:20,110 --> 01:36:17,250
had that sort of vision being laid out

2287
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:20,120
forcefully enthusiastically

2288
01:36:25,310 --> 01:36:23,280
authoritative Lee then I think NASA

2289
01:36:26,590 --> 01:36:25,320
would be in a very different position to

2290
01:36:29,060 --> 01:36:26,600
that publicly

2291
01:36:31,100 --> 01:36:29,070
Nick I think what the questioner is is

2292
01:36:33,649 --> 01:36:31,110
is kind of hinting at here is that that

2293
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:33,659
NASA is really actually involved in all

2294
01:36:37,970 --> 01:36:35,850
sorts of things like a secret space

2295
01:36:39,350 --> 01:36:37,980
program if you will and it's just giving

2296
01:36:41,209 --> 01:36:39,360
us the impression that there's really

2297
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:41,219
nothing going on that they're manned

2298
01:36:44,780 --> 01:36:43,170
space flight and space travel is all

2299
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:44,790
kind of a thing of the past

2300
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:46,770
what sort of beatings do you give the

2301
01:36:50,419 --> 01:36:48,570
whole idea of a secret space program

2302
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:50,429
that we're already on the moon we're

2303
01:36:55,010 --> 01:36:52,530
already on Mars that sort of thing no I

2304
01:36:56,720 --> 01:36:55,020
actually think that's a very valid area

2305
01:36:59,240 --> 01:36:56,730
I mean one of the reasons why I think

2306
01:37:01,490 --> 01:36:59,250
it's valid is so we can draw power with

2307
01:37:03,410 --> 01:37:01,500
what we know from conventional aviation

2308
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:03,420
for example when be stealth bomber

2309
01:37:07,370 --> 01:37:05,370
you know this weird-looking big black

2310
01:37:08,870 --> 01:37:07,380
triangular shape thing with the jagged

2311
01:37:11,390 --> 01:37:08,880
edges was rolled out of the hangar for

2312
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:11,400
the public in the media to see in 1989

2313
01:37:16,370 --> 01:37:13,920
you've actually been flying for you know

2314
01:37:18,860 --> 01:37:16,380
ten years before that a prototype stage

2315
01:37:22,189 --> 01:37:18,870
so you know the idea that the space

2316
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:22,199
shuttle 30 years this year on from this

2317
01:37:25,820 --> 01:37:23,730
excuse me next year but the Space

2318
01:37:29,030 --> 01:37:25,830
Shuttle first flew in 81 you know 30

2319
01:37:31,490 --> 01:37:29,040
years on do we really believe that the

2320
01:37:33,500 --> 01:37:31,500
Space Shuttle is still the best that the

2321
01:37:37,130 --> 01:37:33,510
US military or government or NASA has

2322
01:37:38,899 --> 01:37:37,140
you know given the fact that only seven

2323
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:38,909
years after Kennedy made his speech we

2324
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:41,130
were on the moon but thirty years would

2325
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:42,330
not really got much further I think

2326
01:37:48,169 --> 01:37:45,810
that's sort of stretch in credibility so

2327
01:37:49,610 --> 01:37:48,179
I actually don't rule out at all in the

2328
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:49,620
slightest and actually think there's a

2329
01:37:54,830 --> 01:37:51,840
great deal of credibility to the notion

2330
01:37:57,439 --> 01:37:54,840
that there could be a space program

2331
01:37:59,060 --> 01:37:57,449
running in tandem to the one we know you

2332
01:38:01,070 --> 01:37:59,070
know it makes sense for the space

2333
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:01,080
shuttles ascend to go up and put

2334
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:03,090
satellites into orbit because that's

2335
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:05,130
what he does extremely well but if you

2336
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:07,050
want to travel to the you know further

2337
01:38:10,399 --> 01:38:08,730
extremes that set you're going to need

2338
01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:10,409
something else and I think one of the

2339
01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:12,239
things actually ties into this very well

2340
01:38:15,830 --> 01:38:13,210
is the story of

2341
01:38:19,470 --> 01:38:15,840
mckinnon yeah that was going to say

2342
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:19,480
computer hacker from England who hacked

2343
01:38:25,709 --> 01:38:22,930
into NASA in search of information on

2344
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:25,719
UFOs and advanced technologies and one

2345
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:27,489
of the things that NASA excuse me that

2346
01:38:32,100 --> 01:38:29,770
MacKinnon said he saw on NASA computer

2347
01:38:34,410 --> 01:38:32,110
to be hacked into were references to

2348
01:38:36,570 --> 01:38:34,420
reams and reams of names of what look

2349
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:36,580
like military personnel they were all

2350
01:38:42,420 --> 01:38:38,800
listed under the intriguing title of

2351
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:42,430
non-terrestrial officers now you know

2352
01:38:47,970 --> 01:38:44,650
this is sort of very strangely worded

2353
01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:47,980
phrase non-terrestrial officers and you

2354
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:51,489
know NASA itself has either been totally

2355
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:53,170
silent or you know chooses to ignore

2356
01:38:58,020 --> 01:38:55,690
these terminologies as to the military

2357
01:38:59,850 --> 01:38:58,030
the Pentagon and everybody else and to

2358
01:39:01,470 --> 01:38:59,860
me doesn't sound you know like something

2359
01:39:04,500 --> 01:39:01,480
that Makino would suddenly spin out of

2360
01:39:07,709 --> 01:39:04,510
thin air it sounds like for all the

2361
01:39:10,729 --> 01:39:07,719
world like some sort of almost like a

2362
01:39:13,110 --> 01:39:10,739
you know an equivalent of an outerspace

2363
01:39:14,729 --> 01:39:13,120
aircraft carrier or something like that

2364
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:14,739
you know what I means some sort of crew

2365
01:39:20,250 --> 01:39:18,610
on some sort of advanced vessel now we

2366
01:39:22,979 --> 01:39:20,260
can never know for sure of course but I

2367
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:22,989
think things like this you know open us

2368
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:26,400
up to the idea that there could be a

2369
01:39:31,380 --> 01:39:29,770
clandestine space program going on and I

2370
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:31,390
just addressed this issue quite

2371
01:39:37,229 --> 01:39:34,410
seriously in the book but you know this

2372
01:39:39,270 --> 01:39:37,239
may be a systematic study is already

2373
01:39:42,150 --> 01:39:39,280
being done on the face of Mars you know

2374
01:39:44,190 --> 01:39:42,160
know as perhaps we made historic place

2375
01:39:46,200 --> 01:39:44,200
space flights to other worlds you know

2376
01:39:47,340 --> 01:39:46,210
in our solar system who knows and we

2377
01:39:50,700 --> 01:39:47,350
just haven't been told

2378
01:39:52,650 --> 01:39:50,710
I suppose the cynical side of me would

2379
01:39:54,900 --> 01:39:52,660
would not find that surprising you know

2380
01:39:56,970 --> 01:39:54,910
that somebody's already gone to Mars and

2381
01:40:01,410 --> 01:39:56,980
they choose not to tell us about it you

2382
01:40:03,209 --> 01:40:01,420
know just beat apical handle on that you

2383
01:40:05,940 --> 01:40:03,219
know I'm rumor that we've already been

2384
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:05,950
to Mars we have the clandestine space

2385
01:40:10,979 --> 01:40:08,650
program all this stuff is going on this

2386
01:40:13,470 --> 01:40:10,989
secret top secret space firm how the

2387
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:13,480
heck do you prove it that's proven it's

2388
01:40:18,690 --> 01:40:16,330
a big problem but I mean we do know for

2389
01:40:20,220 --> 01:40:18,700
example you know that NASA has been

2390
01:40:24,620 --> 01:40:20,230
working with you know on radical

2391
01:40:26,970 --> 01:40:24,630
spacecraft designs we know that area 51

2392
01:40:29,970 --> 01:40:26,980
even if you take aliens out of the

2393
01:40:33,090 --> 01:40:29,980
Asian our area 51 Derby clearly some

2394
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:33,100
highly advanced prototype aircraft had

2395
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:35,890
being developed we know that we should

2396
01:40:40,860 --> 01:40:38,770
argue that at least some I think of the

2397
01:40:43,500 --> 01:40:40,870
so-called flying triangle reports or

2398
01:40:47,940 --> 01:40:43,510
evidence of highly advanced military

2399
01:40:49,530 --> 01:40:47,950
test platforms etc so you know it's not

2400
01:40:50,900 --> 01:40:49,540
that much of a lead to imagine if we'd

2401
01:40:53,490 --> 01:40:50,910
testing these things in our atmosphere

2402
01:40:55,290 --> 01:40:53,500
that somebody else could be testing more

2403
01:40:57,150 --> 01:40:55,300
advanced things outside of the

2404
01:41:00,140 --> 01:40:57,160
atmosphere and of course I think if

2405
01:41:03,180 --> 01:41:00,150
anybody is engaging you know like a

2406
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:03,190
hidden space program it would have to be

2407
01:41:07,620 --> 01:41:05,530
to investigate the things that they

2408
01:41:09,150 --> 01:41:07,630
don't want us to know about because you

2409
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:09,160
know now we had a problem with it it

2410
01:41:13,250 --> 01:41:11,170
would all be in the public domain so I

2411
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:13,260
suspect that if there is this sort of

2412
01:41:19,110 --> 01:41:16,570
second tier of a space program it's

2413
01:41:21,690 --> 01:41:19,120
purely and simply designed to

2414
01:41:24,780 --> 01:41:21,700
investigate certain issues like the face

2415
01:41:27,420 --> 01:41:24,790
on Mars the idea of ancient life on Mars

2416
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:27,430
or even possibly still living life on

2417
01:41:30,450 --> 01:41:28,930
Mars you know I don't you rule that out

2418
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:30,460
there I've seen some very weird

2419
01:41:34,350 --> 01:41:32,170
photographs pull back from Mars that

2420
01:41:37,110 --> 01:41:34,360
seem to show evidence of vegetation and

2421
01:41:40,020 --> 01:41:37,120
water etc in certain locations

2422
01:41:43,260 --> 01:41:40,030
you know maybe sort of the fact the the

2423
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:43,270
paradigm challenging issues that these

2424
01:41:47,070 --> 01:41:45,370
revelations would have the kind of

2425
01:41:48,390 --> 01:41:47,080
inspires people to say well you know

2426
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:48,400
we're going to do it under cover we're

2427
01:41:53,010 --> 01:41:50,650
not going to do it via the the open

2428
01:41:55,290 --> 01:41:53,020
space program if you like well that also

2429
01:41:58,320 --> 01:41:55,300
brings up the whole subject of the

2430
01:42:01,410 --> 01:41:58,330
militarization of space remember the

2431
01:42:04,110 --> 01:42:01,420
wonderful plot element in the quite

2432
01:42:07,140 --> 01:42:04,120
funny movie space cowboys where they

2433
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:07,150
these retired astronauts are sent back

2434
01:42:11,610 --> 01:42:09,010
up into space to fix an old computer

2435
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:11,620
system on a huge massive you know the

2436
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:14,290
nuclear device that has Rockets pointed

2437
01:42:20,510 --> 01:42:16,810
at the earth and some huge orbiting

2438
01:42:24,510 --> 01:42:20,520
space station where where does NASA's

2439
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:24,520
involvement publicly and and and then

2440
01:42:30,060 --> 01:42:26,890
where does that that link to the

2441
01:42:32,550 --> 01:42:30,070
militarization of space sort of start do

2442
01:42:35,459 --> 01:42:32,560
you have you got any information on you

2443
01:42:37,860 --> 01:42:35,469
know the percentage of launches that our

2444
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:37,870
military and in secret and not divulge

2445
01:42:42,470 --> 01:42:39,690
publicly what

2446
01:42:44,540 --> 01:42:42,480
is NASA just a public relations agency

2447
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:44,550
now for the militarization of space do

2448
01:42:48,020 --> 01:42:46,410
you think well that's actually a very

2449
01:42:50,570 --> 01:42:48,030
good question there's no doubt you know

2450
01:42:53,810 --> 01:42:50,580
NASA legitimately launches satellites

2451
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:53,820
and space probes you know into space

2452
01:42:58,700 --> 01:42:57,090
that will I design to you know fly to

2453
01:43:02,660 --> 01:42:58,710
different planets in our solar system

2454
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:02,670
Saturn Venus whatever to you know to try

2455
01:43:07,460 --> 01:43:04,650
and determine what we can learn from

2456
01:43:09,260 --> 01:43:07,470
these planets and etcetera etcetera but

2457
01:43:11,900 --> 01:43:09,270
there's also the fact that a highly

2458
01:43:14,090 --> 01:43:11,910
significant number of particulars put

2459
01:43:17,180 --> 01:43:14,100
the space shuttle launches are actually

2460
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:17,190
designed to place military satellites

2461
01:43:22,250 --> 01:43:19,530
into Earth orbit and most of these are

2462
01:43:23,810 --> 01:43:22,260
like spy satellites actually launched on

2463
01:43:25,550 --> 01:43:23,820
behalf of people at the National

2464
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:25,560
Security Agency the National

2465
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:29,370
Reconnaissance Office and the CIA you

2466
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:31,770
know they put in satellites into orbit

2467
01:43:37,390 --> 01:43:33,570
that will be able to sort of spy on the

2468
01:43:40,460 --> 01:43:37,400
on Russia on China on Iran on Iraq etc

2469
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:40,470
and this happens all the time and you

2470
01:43:44,810 --> 01:43:42,090
know this is where you have the public

2471
01:43:47,510 --> 01:43:44,820
face of NASA involved in scientific

2472
01:43:50,630 --> 01:43:47,520
exploration versus the private face of

2473
01:43:52,220 --> 01:43:50,640
NASA actually launching satellites on

2474
01:43:54,410 --> 01:43:52,230
behalf of the Defense Department's in

2475
01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:54,420
the intelligence community and you know

2476
01:43:58,730 --> 01:43:56,730
the two issues ironically on the one

2477
01:44:00,590 --> 01:43:58,740
hand are inextricably linked because

2478
01:44:01,910 --> 01:44:00,600
it's often the same vehicles launching

2479
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:01,920
them the space shuttles and the same

2480
01:44:05,870 --> 01:44:04,170
crews you know your finger CERN

2481
01:44:09,110 --> 01:44:05,880
astronauts going up time and time again

2482
01:44:10,670 --> 01:44:09,120
and yet the whole modus operandi if you

2483
01:44:12,770 --> 01:44:10,680
like he's totally different on the one

2484
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:12,780
hand it's a scientific exploration and

2485
01:44:16,940 --> 01:44:14,370
the other hand its defense and

2486
01:44:18,770 --> 01:44:16,950
intelligence related issues nothing this

2487
01:44:20,870 --> 01:44:18,780
is an important issue to remember when

2488
01:44:22,220 --> 01:44:20,880
it comes to government secrecy we'll get

2489
01:44:24,470 --> 01:44:22,230
into that in a moment

2490
01:44:26,510 --> 01:44:24,480
we have Nicholas Redfern author of the

2491
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:26,520
NASA conspiracies Chris O'Brien's the

2492
01:44:36,830 --> 01:44:28,890
co-host on Jean Steinberg you're in the

2493
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:44,490
[Music]

2494
01:44:50,140 --> 01:44:47,350
welcome back to the pear cast the gold

2495
01:45:02,580 --> 01:44:50,150
standard of paranormal radio and now

2496
01:45:07,390 --> 01:45:04,930
we are in the final hour of the power

2497
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:07,400
cast I'm gene Steinberg Chris O'Brien's

2498
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:10,010
the co-host Nick Redfern is the guest

2499
01:45:13,570 --> 01:45:11,570
talking about the book the NASA

2500
01:45:15,310 --> 01:45:13,580
conspiracies we've been involved in

2501
01:45:17,740 --> 01:45:15,320
listen your questions and lots more

2502
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:17,750
Chris any more questions or follow-ups

2503
01:45:24,700 --> 01:45:20,960
well we we have a question that is is

2504
01:45:26,709 --> 01:45:24,710
more about Nick's work here and in

2505
01:45:30,010 --> 01:45:26,719
basically it's one of our longtime

2506
01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:30,020
posters and he says how does it feel to

2507
01:45:33,220 --> 01:45:31,730
be on a roll between this book and the

2508
01:45:34,959 --> 01:45:33,230
last one it seems like his work is

2509
01:45:37,270 --> 01:45:34,969
generating some serious discussion and

2510
01:45:40,359 --> 01:45:37,280
good vibes it's a far cry from the

2511
01:45:42,220 --> 01:45:40,369
reaction to body-snatchers does do you

2512
01:45:44,590 --> 01:45:42,230
feel that these books may become more of

2513
01:45:45,550 --> 01:45:44,600
a legacy than the cryptozoological books

2514
01:45:47,890 --> 01:45:45,560
that you've written and you've written

2515
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:47,900
quite a number of good ones and and do

2516
01:45:51,100 --> 01:45:49,040
you feel that they're more important

2517
01:45:53,770 --> 01:45:51,110
well I mean I appreciate the comments

2518
01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:53,780
you know the the person said I mean to

2519
01:45:58,510 --> 01:45:56,210
be honest I don't that often getting to

2520
01:46:00,430 --> 01:45:58,520
the deeper issue of what this book or

2521
01:46:02,830 --> 01:46:00,440
that books gonna mean to people I mean I

2522
01:46:04,990 --> 01:46:02,840
write about things you know I mean I'm

2523
01:46:07,209 --> 01:46:05,000
not that I've said this about that

2524
01:46:09,550 --> 01:46:07,219
deeper person you know I write about the

2525
01:46:11,680 --> 01:46:09,560
things I find interesting and more

2526
01:46:13,990 --> 01:46:11,690
importantly this is one thing I hate

2527
01:46:17,290 --> 01:46:14,000
more than any other is when I pick a

2528
01:46:20,109 --> 01:46:17,300
book up and he just goes over all ground

2529
01:46:21,700 --> 01:46:20,119
well he's why I always try and you know

2530
01:46:23,740 --> 01:46:21,710
even dealing with subjects that have

2531
01:46:26,229 --> 01:46:23,750
been dealt with before I always try and

2532
01:46:28,240 --> 01:46:26,239
bring new information to the table I

2533
01:46:29,740 --> 01:46:28,250
pre-exam Paul in this book about the

2534
01:46:30,879 --> 01:46:29,750
face of Mars for example you know when

2535
01:46:33,459 --> 01:46:30,889
the people ain't here with the

2536
01:46:35,890 --> 01:46:33,469
late-night tonus who gave me a lot of

2537
01:46:38,500 --> 01:46:35,900
information you know about the whole

2538
01:46:40,330 --> 01:46:38,510
he's theories on the face on Mars and

2539
01:46:43,060 --> 01:46:40,340
what he felt it was and possibly still

2540
01:46:44,709 --> 01:46:43,070
is and how it came into being etc I

2541
01:46:46,750 --> 01:46:44,719
think when you're looking at things like

2542
01:46:48,430 --> 01:46:46,760
that then if you can bring new

2543
01:46:50,229 --> 01:46:48,440
information to the table that's the most

2544
01:46:53,500 --> 01:46:50,239
important thing and that that's what I

2545
01:46:57,310 --> 01:46:53,510
try to do now when you're looking at

2546
01:47:00,359 --> 01:46:57,320
things like do I feel this book's gonna

2547
01:47:02,709 --> 01:47:00,369
be more readily accepted than

2548
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:02,719
body-snatchers I don't I don't worry

2549
01:47:07,060 --> 01:47:04,850
about that you know I thought Body

2550
01:47:09,129 --> 01:47:07,070
Snatchers out because this is the story

2551
01:47:11,010 --> 01:47:09,139
I was told and it presents a new spin on

2552
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:11,020
Roswell and I felt it was an important

2553
01:47:14,590 --> 01:47:13,610
story that the people should be told

2554
01:47:16,750 --> 01:47:14,600
about

2555
01:47:19,210 --> 01:47:16,760
you know I mean I think in terms of

2556
01:47:21,220 --> 01:47:19,220
people who look at things conventionally

2557
01:47:23,140 --> 01:47:21,230
if you can call it eventually you know

2558
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:23,150
the aliens are visiting the earth and

2559
01:47:27,970 --> 01:47:24,770
the government's hiding the information

2560
01:47:31,450 --> 01:47:27,980
yes this book will probably be more

2561
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:31,460
popular but do I feel that that's the

2562
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:34,730
most important issue why I write this

2563
01:47:39,940 --> 01:47:36,410
book or that book no you know I put out

2564
01:47:42,130 --> 01:47:39,950
information I hope we'll kind of yeah

2565
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:42,140
I'd say what we know or what we think we

2566
01:47:46,390 --> 01:47:43,970
know you know that the various phenomena

2567
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:46,400
we're investigating you know I I don't

2568
01:47:51,310 --> 01:47:48,530
have it I wouldn't want people to get a

2569
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:51,320
cynical approach of obviously gonna sell

2570
01:47:55,450 --> 01:47:52,880
more than that because it's saying what

2571
01:47:56,980 --> 01:47:55,460
people want to hear no I would never do

2572
01:47:59,560 --> 01:47:56,990
that I'd rather walk away from the

2573
01:48:02,380 --> 01:47:59,570
subject and there's probably also I

2574
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:02,390
should be fair to add this but I don't

2575
01:48:08,650 --> 01:48:05,690
think there's enough money in any UFO or

2576
01:48:11,740 --> 01:48:08,660
space conspiracy book to make it make

2577
01:48:13,350 --> 01:48:11,750
sense to just grab it for a project and

2578
01:48:16,060 --> 01:48:13,360
it can make a lot more money from doing

2579
01:48:17,890 --> 01:48:16,070
mainstream stuff no that's actually a

2580
01:48:19,300 --> 01:48:17,900
very good point you know sort of Ludi to

2581
01:48:21,820 --> 01:48:19,310
before you know I'm certainly not

2582
01:48:23,620 --> 01:48:21,830
driving around you know you know I call

2583
01:48:25,900 --> 01:48:23,630
that I'm actually driving around in a

2584
01:48:27,340 --> 01:48:25,910
seven-year-old Ford Taurus which is

2585
01:48:30,340 --> 01:48:27,350
actually yowant I've seen better days

2586
01:48:32,860 --> 01:48:30,350
but it's you know it's it's my

2587
01:48:35,070 --> 01:48:32,870
seven-year-old Ford Taurus you know I

2588
01:48:37,810 --> 01:48:35,080
think it's one of these situations where

2589
01:48:39,190 --> 01:48:37,820
you're quite right that it doesn't

2590
01:48:41,140 --> 01:48:39,200
matter what they you know to take the

2591
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:41,150
cynical approach if you're writing books

2592
01:48:44,980 --> 01:48:43,250
about UFO you're probably gonna sell X

2593
01:48:46,570 --> 01:48:44,990
thousands of copies you know three four

2594
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:46,580
or five thousand copies who knows what

2595
01:48:52,150 --> 01:48:49,250
but you know my my approach has always

2596
01:48:54,430 --> 01:48:52,160
been whatever I write about I want to

2597
01:48:56,370 --> 01:48:54,440
try and bring something new and often

2598
01:48:58,540 --> 01:48:56,380
you know that bringing something new

2599
01:49:01,150 --> 01:48:58,550
doesn't always bring what people want to

2600
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:01,160
hear you know if I wanted to sell 50,000

2601
01:49:05,830 --> 01:49:02,930
copies of a book I would never written

2602
01:49:07,210 --> 01:49:05,840
body-snatchers which you know tell the

2603
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:07,220
story of a very alternative

2604
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:09,770
down-to-earth theory although a dark

2605
01:49:16,180 --> 01:49:13,850
theory for Roswell if I wanted to you

2606
01:49:17,530 --> 01:49:16,190
know sort of have a good position within

2607
01:49:19,270 --> 01:49:17,540
the UFO community I wouldn't have

2608
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:19,280
written that but I I don't care but

2609
01:49:23,650 --> 01:49:21,530
having a good position in the UFO

2610
01:49:26,170 --> 01:49:23,660
experience I care about telling a story

2611
01:49:28,089 --> 01:49:26,180
that potentially I feel is important you

2612
01:49:29,889 --> 01:49:28,099
know if I if I

2613
01:49:31,239 --> 01:49:29,899
what people thought about me and whether

2614
01:49:33,580 --> 01:49:31,249
I was saying the right thing I never do

2615
01:49:35,830 --> 01:49:33,590
anything you know i do what i fairly can

2616
01:49:39,189 --> 01:49:35,840
pause should do and yeah you wouldn't

2617
01:49:41,229 --> 01:49:39,199
write a book about the trickster well I

2618
01:49:43,599 --> 01:49:41,239
would but the trickster you know I mean

2619
01:49:45,339 --> 01:49:43,609
joking aside people like yourself you

2620
01:49:47,859 --> 01:49:45,349
know I've done so much a good research

2621
01:49:50,679 --> 01:49:47,869
it's like why would I go blundering into

2622
01:49:53,409 --> 01:49:50,689
that but if I found you know sort of a

2623
01:49:56,229 --> 01:49:53,419
new angle on the Kecksburg story but

2624
01:49:58,989 --> 01:49:56,239
nobody mentioned before then I would say

2625
01:50:01,419 --> 01:49:58,999
well you know I'll do a book on this you

2626
01:50:03,909 --> 01:50:01,429
know it's like why go blundering into

2627
01:50:05,589 --> 01:50:03,919
certain areas that I you know there are

2628
01:50:08,109 --> 01:50:05,599
other people such as yourself like the

2629
01:50:11,859 --> 01:50:08,119
trick strangle know far more about I

2630
01:50:13,509 --> 01:50:11,869
would sooner you know go there as I feel

2631
01:50:15,699 --> 01:50:13,519
comfortable but I think about but where

2632
01:50:18,399 --> 01:50:15,709
I can add something new to it and you

2633
01:50:22,839 --> 01:50:18,409
know know like you know you just pointed

2634
01:50:24,729 --> 01:50:22,849
out the whole idea of selling books is

2635
01:50:26,919 --> 01:50:24,739
really irrelevant when they're marking

2636
01:50:29,139 --> 01:50:26,929
it so you have our books he said very

2637
01:50:31,569 --> 01:50:29,149
small anyway you know it's not it's not

2638
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:31,579
a relevant issue to me okay one of the

2639
01:50:35,799 --> 01:50:33,530
areas that you do talk about and has

2640
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:35,809
been covered somewhat I think over the

2641
01:50:40,779 --> 01:50:38,239
years in various books not as in-depth I

2642
01:50:42,310 --> 01:50:40,789
think as it deserves but one of the

2643
01:50:44,229 --> 01:50:42,320
things that's always intrigued me and

2644
01:50:46,060 --> 01:50:44,239
I'm sure others out there in the

2645
01:50:50,619 --> 01:50:46,070
listening audience is some of these

2646
01:50:53,739 --> 01:50:50,629
really amazing you know like the sts-80

2647
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:53,749
footage some of these objects sightings

2648
01:50:59,139 --> 01:50:55,760
that have been reported over the years

2649
01:51:03,369 --> 01:50:59,149
by astronauts you know Santa Claus is

2650
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:03,379
real what was the famous quote from the

2651
01:51:07,449 --> 01:51:05,570
from the Apollo astronauts you have a

2652
01:51:09,669 --> 01:51:07,459
very intriguing chapter that talks about

2653
01:51:11,679 --> 01:51:09,679
Gordon Cooper and and Jim McDermott and

2654
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:11,689
McDivitt rather and and some of the

2655
01:51:14,619 --> 01:51:13,129
astronauts sightings you want to just

2656
01:51:16,810 --> 01:51:14,629
kind of briefly go over some of those

2657
01:51:18,969 --> 01:51:16,820
yeah sure I mean you know this is one of

2658
01:51:20,310 --> 01:51:18,979
the I think most important issues you

2659
01:51:22,839 --> 01:51:20,320
know when you talk about

2660
01:51:24,819 --> 01:51:22,849
okay talks about conspiracy theories

2661
01:51:26,770 --> 01:51:24,829
cover-ups and government documents but

2662
01:51:31,899 --> 01:51:26,780
when you actually get NASA astronauts

2663
01:51:34,359 --> 01:51:31,909
talking on the record about you know

2664
01:51:36,639 --> 01:51:34,369
their own personal experiences of UFOs

2665
01:51:38,469 --> 01:51:36,649
or knowledge of UFOs and that sort of

2666
01:51:41,260 --> 01:51:38,479
takes things to a whole different level

2667
01:51:44,050 --> 01:51:41,270
I mean one of them you know

2668
01:51:48,430 --> 01:51:44,060
what characters was Gordon Cooper one of

2669
01:51:50,770 --> 01:51:48,440
the original Gemini astronauts now you

2670
01:51:53,980 --> 01:51:50,780
know he was someone who you know is very

2671
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:53,990
vocal I mean to the United Nations by

2672
01:51:57,760 --> 01:51:55,610
presenting statements for the United

2673
01:51:59,560 --> 01:51:57,770
Nations that yes UFOs were real and the

2674
01:52:01,630 --> 01:51:59,570
one the reasons he believed this was

2675
01:52:03,550 --> 01:52:01,640
because rather ironically before he

2676
01:52:05,230 --> 01:52:03,560
became a NASA the NASA astronauts in the

2677
01:52:07,180 --> 01:52:05,240
early 50s when he was with the US

2678
01:52:09,790 --> 01:52:07,190
military and taking part in missions

2679
01:52:11,980 --> 01:52:09,800
over Europe you know to sort of see what

2680
01:52:14,580 --> 01:52:11,990
the Russians are doing he had a UFO

2681
01:52:17,020 --> 01:52:14,590
experience of his own seeing these

2682
01:52:18,730 --> 01:52:17,030
source of light objects flying high in

2683
01:52:30,190 --> 01:52:18,740
the sky that the military actually said

2684
01:52:31,810 --> 01:52:30,200
with seed pods the body snatchers you

2685
01:52:33,910 --> 01:52:31,820
know it's like pods in the sky or

2686
01:52:36,940 --> 01:52:33,920
whatever but I don't think that was what

2687
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:36,950
the military were trying to you know

2688
01:52:42,550 --> 01:52:39,170
instill but it was just trying to find

2689
01:52:45,190 --> 01:52:42,560
out you know trying to present a

2690
01:52:47,290 --> 01:52:45,200
down-to-earth theory but it was because

2691
01:52:50,530 --> 01:52:47,300
of this and then other experiences where

2692
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:50,540
you know he'd seen film footage of UFOs

2693
01:52:56,620 --> 01:52:52,730
out at Edwards Air Force Base landing

2694
01:52:58,690 --> 01:52:56,630
and taking after inspired Copa to you

2695
01:53:01,300 --> 01:52:58,700
know really get behind the idea that

2696
01:53:03,790 --> 01:53:01,310
there was a genuine UFO phenomenon and

2697
01:53:05,530 --> 01:53:03,800
also Edgar Mitchell who you know

2698
01:53:07,900 --> 01:53:05,540
commanded of the one of the Apollo

2699
01:53:10,150 --> 01:53:07,910
missions that landed on the moon in 71

2700
01:53:12,280 --> 01:53:10,160
you know Mitchell has actually gone on

2701
01:53:15,310 --> 01:53:12,290
record of stating that not only does he

2702
01:53:17,710 --> 01:53:15,320
believe UFOs are real but he was

2703
01:53:20,590 --> 01:53:17,720
actually got information to mean inside

2704
01:53:23,650 --> 01:53:20,600
the source is very recently that yes

2705
01:53:25,180 --> 01:53:23,660
Roswell was really bold aliens now you

2706
01:53:27,130 --> 01:53:25,190
know if this was something anything to

2707
01:53:30,130 --> 01:53:27,140
do with other than UFOs the mainstream

2708
01:53:32,530 --> 01:53:30,140
media would be you know doing all it

2709
01:53:35,440 --> 01:53:32,540
could to get to the bottom of this story

2710
01:53:37,210 --> 01:53:35,450
but it's almost as if when it comes to

2711
01:53:40,450 --> 01:53:37,220
UFOs even if it's coming from like a

2712
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:40,460
NASA astronaut but it's like and finally

2713
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:43,330
enough to lighten the day here's what

2714
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:45,530
astronaut so-and-so has to say about

2715
01:53:51,010 --> 01:53:48,290
aliens I know maybe the thing is also

2716
01:53:52,690 --> 01:53:51,020
nick is that okay these guys are getting

2717
01:53:54,910 --> 01:53:52,700
on in years and you say yeah well you

2718
01:53:56,500 --> 01:53:54,920
know he was an astronaut 40 years ago

2719
01:53:58,870 --> 01:53:56,510
he's getting on in years he's a little

2720
01:54:02,110 --> 01:53:58,880
bit lighting in the head so he believes

2721
01:54:04,030 --> 01:54:02,120
in UFOs ha ha ho ho that's an excuse

2722
01:54:06,400 --> 01:54:04,040
obviously not an excuse we want to

2723
01:54:09,100 --> 01:54:06,410
regard as valid but maybe we can see why

2724
01:54:11,979 --> 01:54:09,110
that's happening the book is called the

2725
01:54:14,229 --> 01:54:11,989
NASA conspiracies the author is called

2726
01:54:16,360 --> 01:54:14,239
Nick Redfern and we can go into why in a

2727
01:54:18,820 --> 01:54:16,370
long time passing but that's another

2728
01:54:21,850 --> 01:54:18,830
story we also have Chris O'Brien co-host

2729
01:54:25,150 --> 01:54:21,860
you can write us news at the para cast

2730
01:54:27,130 --> 01:54:25,160
comm news at the para cast comm I'm Jean

2731
01:54:30,070 --> 01:54:27,140
Steinberg and why I was called Jean

2732
01:54:35,580 --> 01:54:30,080
Steinberg is another story that also is

2733
01:54:42,430 --> 01:54:39,510
[Music]

2734
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Jacques Vallee Budd Hopkins France Tiger

2735
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Nick Redfern Loren Coleman you'll find

2736
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classic and new books by these and many

2737
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other authors at anomalous books the

2738
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2739
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2740
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and aliens Bigfoot and crypto zoology

2741
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well as alternative history all of which

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makes an omelet simply phenomenal check

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out their catalogue at anomalous books

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2801
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2802
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2803
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hard-hitting talk radio G C and grey

2804
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talk radio starts here we want to hear

2805
01:58:56,879 --> 01:58:55,060
from you

2806
01:59:00,060 --> 01:58:56,889
if you have a comment or question about

2807
01:59:03,240 --> 01:59:00,070
the pair cast send it to news at the

2808
01:59:05,820 --> 01:59:03,250
pair cast com that's news at the para

2809
01:59:07,709 --> 01:59:05,830
cast calm and don't forget to visit our

2810
01:59:11,640 --> 01:59:07,719
famous pair of cast community forums at

2811
01:59:14,430 --> 01:59:11,650
forum dot the podcast.com get in on all

2812
01:59:20,700 --> 01:59:14,440
the action at forum dot the para cast

2813
01:59:22,350 --> 01:59:20,710
comm we have Nick Redfern joining us on

2814
01:59:24,629 --> 01:59:22,360
the para cast to talk about the NASA

2815
01:59:27,240 --> 01:59:24,639
conspiracies his latest book Chris

2816
01:59:29,129 --> 01:59:27,250
O'Brien's the co-host and we've been

2817
01:59:33,090 --> 01:59:29,139
looking at obviously the situation

2818
01:59:35,220 --> 01:59:33,100
involving NASA people astronauts all

2819
01:59:37,290 --> 01:59:35,230
saying there's something to the UFO

2820
01:59:39,689 --> 01:59:37,300
mystery but the question I guess is

2821
01:59:41,550 --> 01:59:39,699
always raised here is it because they

2822
01:59:44,040 --> 01:59:41,560
simply look at the evidence and believe

2823
01:59:47,010 --> 01:59:44,050
in UFOs or in one case here maybe they

2824
01:59:48,479 --> 01:59:47,020
have access to something or are they

2825
01:59:51,180 --> 01:59:48,489
trying to tell us something a lot more

2826
01:59:52,410 --> 01:59:51,190
well you know I mean each one of these

2827
01:59:54,300 --> 01:59:52,420
things well you can always look it at

2828
01:59:56,040 --> 01:59:54,310
two ways I mean for example as I point

2829
01:59:57,810 --> 01:59:56,050
out in the final chapter of the book

2830
01:59:59,370 --> 01:59:57,820
when you come to the issuer they are

2831
02:00:00,750 --> 01:59:59,380
they try and tell us something more you

2832
02:00:02,570 --> 02:00:00,760
know I'm going to have this relationship

2833
02:00:05,910 --> 02:00:02,580
that's sort of developing and growing

2834
02:00:07,560 --> 02:00:05,920
between NASA and the Vatican now a lot

2835
02:00:10,620 --> 02:00:07,570
of people don't realize and a lot of

2836
02:00:13,260 --> 02:00:10,630
people do but the Vatican has a very

2837
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:13,270
deep interest in astronomy outer space

2838
02:00:19,109 --> 02:00:17,050
and non-human life an observatory just

2839
02:00:20,850 --> 02:00:19,119
up the road for me yeah exactly yeah

2840
02:00:23,399 --> 02:00:20,860
that's right the Vatican has been very

2841
02:00:25,709 --> 02:00:23,409
vocal about the idea that it's okay for

2842
02:00:28,200 --> 02:00:25,719
the you know the Catholic Church and its

2843
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:28,210
followers to believe in aliens and it

2844
02:00:33,390 --> 02:00:30,010
doesn't take away from their belief

2845
02:00:35,970 --> 02:00:33,400
systems or you know long-term beliefs

2846
02:00:37,740 --> 02:00:35,980
etc and the fact that you know this is

2847
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:37,750
in tandem with NASA has led a lot of

2848
02:00:42,660 --> 02:00:39,850
people quite legitimately to wonder if

2849
02:00:45,120 --> 02:00:42,670
this is part of some sort of slow drip

2850
02:00:47,550 --> 02:00:45,130
feed process to acclimatize us to the

2851
02:00:49,379 --> 02:00:47,560
idea that not only is it okay to believe

2852
02:00:52,050 --> 02:00:49,389
in aliens in a theoretical sense but

2853
02:00:54,510 --> 02:00:52,060
also that they they really do exist and

2854
02:00:55,650 --> 02:00:54,520
they are actually coming here so you

2855
02:00:59,280 --> 02:00:55,660
know I think we can

2856
02:01:01,920 --> 02:00:59,290
from the idea that's yes anything he and

2857
02:01:04,380 --> 02:01:01,930
the visiting and this indoctrination

2858
02:01:06,390 --> 02:01:04,390
process in some terms which kind of

2859
02:01:09,270 --> 02:01:06,400
sounds like a sinister term I mean may

2860
02:01:11,430 --> 02:01:09,280
well be or you know maybe they're just

2861
02:01:12,870 --> 02:01:11,440
they realize there's a phenomenon but

2862
02:01:14,250 --> 02:01:12,880
they don't have all the answers I think

2863
02:01:15,630 --> 02:01:14,260
I also I think it could be somewhere

2864
02:01:17,190 --> 02:01:15,640
between the two I think there's often a

2865
02:01:19,140 --> 02:01:17,200
tendency to think if government

2866
02:01:21,450 --> 02:01:19,150
investigate UFOs and they hide

2867
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:21,460
information that's because they have all

2868
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:24,490
the answers it maybe they don't have all

2869
02:01:28,110 --> 02:01:26,170
the answers but rather they know

2870
02:01:31,260 --> 02:01:28,120
something's going on but they're not

2871
02:01:33,240 --> 02:01:31,270
entirely sure how to deal with it what

2872
02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:33,250
it means or what the implications and

2873
02:01:37,620 --> 02:01:35,650
the agenda are behind the whole UFO

2874
02:01:39,990 --> 02:01:37,630
phenomenon and I think those are all

2875
02:01:42,870 --> 02:01:40,000
important issues that we should we

2876
02:01:45,060 --> 02:01:42,880
should bear in mind and also the matter

2877
02:01:46,320 --> 02:01:45,070
of fact your NIC it would cause panic

2878
02:01:48,630 --> 02:01:46,330
wouldn't it on the part of some people

2879
02:01:50,520 --> 02:01:48,640
if governments say hey we don't know

2880
02:01:52,080 --> 02:01:50,530
what's in our skies I think that's

2881
02:01:54,330 --> 02:01:52,090
important if the government was to

2882
02:01:56,550 --> 02:01:54,340
simply say okay back in the forties and

2883
02:01:58,350 --> 02:01:56,560
fifties we were visited and these things

2884
02:01:59,850 --> 02:01:58,360
they did abduct a few people and it was

2885
02:02:01,410 --> 02:01:59,860
kind of sinister we didn't want to tell

2886
02:02:03,900 --> 02:02:01,420
you about them but they've either gone

2887
02:02:05,850 --> 02:02:03,910
away or they're not doing this anymore

2888
02:02:08,490 --> 02:02:05,860
there might be a you know that because

2889
02:02:11,160 --> 02:02:08,500
concern but it wouldn't be overwhelming

2890
02:02:13,140 --> 02:02:11,170
concern I don't think but a statement to

2891
02:02:14,760 --> 02:02:13,150
the effect that something's interacting

2892
02:02:16,500 --> 02:02:14,770
with us but number one don't know what

2893
02:02:18,450 --> 02:02:16,510
it is number two we've done the way it's

2894
02:02:19,950 --> 02:02:18,460
from and number three we don't really

2895
02:02:22,230 --> 02:02:19,960
know what it's doing here and whether

2896
02:02:24,240 --> 02:02:22,240
it's friendly or hostile or somewhere in

2897
02:02:25,860 --> 02:02:24,250
between or ambivalence or whatever and

2898
02:02:29,880 --> 02:02:25,870
we're not able to stop it from happening

2899
02:02:31,470 --> 02:02:29,890
I think that issue would be of concern

2900
02:02:33,120 --> 02:02:31,480
and it's kind of like you know it's like

2901
02:02:34,590 --> 02:02:33,130
in England we have this phrase that you

2902
02:02:37,590 --> 02:02:34,600
know you can't be a little bit pregnant

2903
02:02:39,810 --> 02:02:37,600
it's kind of like respect to UFOs you

2904
02:02:41,550 --> 02:02:39,820
you cannot tell part of the story if

2905
02:02:43,740 --> 02:02:41,560
Obama or whoever

2906
02:02:46,740 --> 02:02:43,750
god forbid Sarah Palin had to say that

2907
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:46,750
UFOs existed well you know it's like

2908
02:02:51,390 --> 02:02:49,210
that won't be enough that will not

2909
02:02:53,250 --> 02:02:51,400
satisfy anyone enough to say that UFOs

2910
02:02:54,660 --> 02:02:53,260
exist questions will be asked well what

2911
02:02:56,280 --> 02:02:54,670
about abductions or their cattle

2912
02:02:58,380 --> 02:02:56,290
mutilations what about this what about

2913
02:03:00,780 --> 02:02:58,390
that and the floodgates will be opened

2914
02:03:03,060 --> 02:03:00,790
and I think I think that's the big

2915
02:03:05,460 --> 02:03:03,070
concern I'd actually don't think it's so

2916
02:03:07,350 --> 02:03:05,470
much the concern it's the fact that

2917
02:03:08,670 --> 02:03:07,360
alien and may exist that is the

2918
02:03:11,160 --> 02:03:08,680
overriding well well

2919
02:03:13,380 --> 02:03:11,170
reason for the secrecy it's the knock-on

2920
02:03:15,600 --> 02:03:13,390
effect and the additional question that

2921
02:03:18,360 --> 02:03:15,610
were inevitably be provoked by such a

2922
02:03:20,750 --> 02:03:18,370
revelation that concerns the government

2923
02:03:23,390 --> 02:03:20,760
in NASA yeah that's a really good point

2924
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:23,400
just kind of going back to the Vatican

2925
02:03:29,100 --> 02:03:26,050
involvement in space and the interest in

2926
02:03:33,240 --> 02:03:29,110
space perhaps part of the the slow drip

2927
02:03:35,940 --> 02:03:33,250
process is is naming the Pope Pope

2928
02:03:40,080 --> 02:03:35,950
Benedict and putting in a guy that looks

2929
02:03:43,380 --> 02:03:40,090
like in a demonic looking people I've

2930
02:03:45,570 --> 02:03:43,390
ever seen a photograph of and I guess if

2931
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:45,580
people don't recoil to him perhaps

2932
02:03:54,690 --> 02:03:51,570
there's hope for some sort of I'm sorry

2933
02:03:56,490 --> 02:03:54,700
I mean I understand but sadly the

2934
02:03:57,990 --> 02:03:56,500
important thing to remember as well is

2935
02:04:00,030 --> 02:03:58,000
that you know if the Vatican saying

2936
02:04:01,710 --> 02:04:00,040
something either the Vatican knows well

2937
02:04:03,450 --> 02:04:01,720
that's gonna be intriguing itself well

2938
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:03,460
what if the Vatican is only going on

2939
02:04:08,130 --> 02:04:05,530
what it's being told by NASA and other

2940
02:04:10,170 --> 02:04:08,140
agencies and and the Vatican is deceived

2941
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:10,180
as much as we are you know I mean I

2942
02:04:13,620 --> 02:04:12,010
point out in the book out chapters in

2943
02:04:16,590 --> 02:04:13,630
the book that look at issues that

2944
02:04:18,600 --> 02:04:16,600
concern UFOs and the theory as to what

2945
02:04:20,430 --> 02:04:18,610
lies the army of a phenomena but I'm not

2946
02:04:21,810 --> 02:04:20,440
into daily ins you know there's as you

2947
02:04:24,540 --> 02:04:21,820
probably remembers one chapter in the

2948
02:04:26,370 --> 02:04:24,550
book that sort of focuses very much in a

2949
02:04:28,560 --> 02:04:26,380
similar pathways to those colored by

2950
02:04:30,210 --> 02:04:28,570
Matt Tony soon his trips out to rest

2951
02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:30,220
fields book I have a chapter in there

2952
02:04:36,030 --> 02:04:32,050
but a NASA contractor guy who had a

2953
02:04:37,740 --> 02:04:36,040
classic contact experience in 1973 he

2954
02:04:40,050 --> 02:04:37,750
had the same cancer like a long-haired

2955
02:04:42,120 --> 02:04:40,060
alien out in the desert and was briefed

2956
02:04:45,090 --> 02:04:42,130
by NASA and was told you know these

2957
02:04:47,160 --> 02:04:45,100
aren't aliens they're deceptive ancient

2958
02:04:49,350 --> 02:04:47,170
human race and we should not trust them

2959
02:04:51,630 --> 02:04:49,360
and keep yourself as far away from them

2960
02:04:53,700 --> 02:04:51,640
as possible you know it's like if the

2961
02:04:55,560 --> 02:04:53,710
Vatican comes out with something can we

2962
02:04:57,810 --> 02:04:55,570
even trust it not because we may not be

2963
02:04:59,460 --> 02:04:57,820
able to trust the Vatican so we may not

2964
02:05:01,770 --> 02:04:59,470
be able to trust what the Vatican was

2965
02:05:03,740 --> 02:05:01,780
told itself hey Chris any more questions

2966
02:05:06,660 --> 02:05:03,750
left the chapter in there on the

2967
02:05:09,480 --> 02:05:06,670
involvement NASA and the abduction

2968
02:05:11,580 --> 02:05:09,490
phenomenon is I think has some really

2969
02:05:13,170 --> 02:05:11,590
interesting raises some interesting

2970
02:05:15,030 --> 02:05:13,180
questions so I do you want to address

2971
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:15,040
that a little bit you mentioned that the

2972
02:05:19,020 --> 02:05:17,530
contactee being contacted by NASA about

2973
02:05:20,009 --> 02:05:19,030
his experience how about the abduction

2974
02:05:22,259 --> 02:05:20,019
phenomenon

2975
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:22,269
another one so the little-known area you

2976
02:05:26,430 --> 02:05:24,010
know again as I mentioned earlier that

2977
02:05:28,709 --> 02:05:26,440
we know that but NASA obviously keeps a

2978
02:05:31,319 --> 02:05:28,719
close track on what's going on in outer

2979
02:05:33,299 --> 02:05:31,329
space but the idea that it is actually

2980
02:05:35,370 --> 02:05:33,309
watching also what's going on on the

2981
02:05:37,350 --> 02:05:35,380
earth with respect you know literally on

2982
02:05:39,899 --> 02:05:37,360
the earth itself with respect to the

2983
02:05:41,370 --> 02:05:39,909
UFOs he's sort of a surprising issue now

2984
02:05:43,379 --> 02:05:41,380
interviewed a woman from the book named

2985
02:05:44,910 --> 02:05:43,389
Sharon who actually still works in a

2986
02:05:47,310 --> 02:05:44,920
secretarial position at NASA's Kennedy

2987
02:05:48,540 --> 02:05:47,320
Space Center to this day and that is her

2988
02:05:51,060 --> 02:05:48,550
for people who are wondering that is her

2989
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:51,070
first real name so it might not actually

2990
02:05:54,359 --> 02:05:53,170
be that difficult for NASA to know there

2991
02:05:56,580 --> 02:05:54,369
probably aren't that many Sharon's

2992
02:05:59,609 --> 02:05:56,590
working at the NASA Kennedy Space Center

2993
02:06:02,220 --> 02:05:59,619
she told me how she'd had these sort of

2994
02:06:03,799 --> 02:06:02,230
classic alien abduction experiencing of

2995
02:06:07,379 --> 02:06:03,809
a technical thing have been taken to

2996
02:06:09,779 --> 02:06:07,389
cross-examine probe etc then you know

2997
02:06:11,609 --> 02:06:09,789
return to a bedroom and so forth and but

2998
02:06:13,859 --> 02:06:11,619
over time you know when she was living

2999
02:06:15,930 --> 02:06:13,869
with her boyfriend who was present and

3000
02:06:17,279 --> 02:06:15,940
some of these experiences occurred he

3001
02:06:18,779 --> 02:06:17,289
said you know she's never actually left

3002
02:06:21,720 --> 02:06:18,789
that room it's almost like it was an

3003
02:06:24,569 --> 02:06:21,730
internal subjective experience you know

3004
02:06:26,310 --> 02:06:24,579
in mind she happened to mention this to

3005
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:26,320
people at work at NASA and was then

3006
02:06:30,930 --> 02:06:28,570
approached by a woman who were for the

3007
02:06:32,759 --> 02:06:30,940
ages and agency said you know can I

3008
02:06:34,229 --> 02:06:32,769
speak to you about your experiences and

3009
02:06:35,819 --> 02:06:34,239
you know as I stress in the book it

3010
02:06:37,379 --> 02:06:35,829
wasn't like a man in black type

3011
02:06:40,049 --> 02:06:37,389
experience where she was threatened and

3012
02:06:41,669 --> 02:06:40,059
intimidated into silence it was along

3013
02:06:43,589 --> 02:06:41,679
the lines of well you know we've heard a

3014
02:06:45,629 --> 02:06:43,599
story very interesting there are people

3015
02:06:47,759 --> 02:06:45,639
in NASA they're intrigued by all this

3016
02:06:50,009 --> 02:06:47,769
and concerned by it and we just like to

3017
02:06:52,140 --> 02:06:50,019
get your story on record you know we'll

3018
02:06:54,419 --> 02:06:52,150
add to the body of data we have and the

3019
02:06:56,370 --> 02:06:54,429
story that that she was given by NASA

3020
02:06:58,049 --> 02:06:56,380
was very very kind of unsettling and

3021
02:07:00,299 --> 02:06:58,059
actually sort of focuses on some of the

3022
02:07:02,310 --> 02:07:00,309
stuff in my final events book that these

3023
02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:02,320
entities weren't actually terrestrial

3024
02:07:06,870 --> 02:07:04,570
they're like deceptive coalface

3025
02:07:08,819 --> 02:07:06,880
creatures that were I guess almost like

3026
02:07:10,709 --> 02:07:08,829
feeding on the human life force if you

3027
02:07:12,839 --> 02:07:10,719
like and the NASA was deeply concerned

3028
02:07:14,279 --> 02:07:12,849
about firebase and was trying to get as

3029
02:07:16,229 --> 02:07:14,289
much information on that cord as you

3030
02:07:18,060 --> 02:07:16,239
could and that they thank you afterwards

3031
02:07:19,709 --> 02:07:18,070
and said well don't say too much about

3032
02:07:21,839 --> 02:07:19,719
it but you know we appreciate you

3033
02:07:23,580 --> 02:07:21,849
telling us I appreciate your telling us

3034
02:07:26,069 --> 02:07:23,590
all this Nick because we have to take

3035
02:07:28,469 --> 02:07:26,079
another break nick Redferns the guest

3036
02:07:30,209 --> 02:07:28,479
the book is called the NASA conspiracies

3037
02:07:31,330 --> 02:07:30,219
Chris O'Brien's our co-host I'm gene

3038
02:07:42,790 --> 02:07:31,340
steinberger and

3039
02:07:46,090 --> 02:07:42,800
the para ghost goes is there a secret

3040
02:07:48,460 --> 02:07:46,100
UFO agenda to strange creatures from the

3041
02:07:50,860 --> 02:07:48,470
darkest corners of the mind roam the

3042
02:07:54,070 --> 02:07:50,870
earth is there evidence for mind control

3043
02:07:57,160 --> 02:07:54,080
time travel or devious government

3044
02:07:59,680 --> 02:07:57,170
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

3045
02:08:02,470 --> 02:07:59,690
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

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02:08:04,780 --> 02:08:02,480
activity and at 14 phenomena when you

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02:08:07,450 --> 02:08:04,790
subscribe to Timmy Beckley's conspiracy

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02:08:10,570 --> 02:08:07,460
girl it's jam-packed with stories

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special book and DVD promotions and the

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best news it's absolutely free sent

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right to your mailbox plus a bonus free

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email newsletter sent out every Friday

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02:08:26,700 --> 02:08:22,280
simply send an email with your name and

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02:08:32,110 --> 02:08:26,710
address to Mister UFO at web TV dotnet

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02:08:38,900 --> 02:08:32,120
text mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out

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02:08:42,930 --> 02:08:40,370
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freedom and spread the word beat custom

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are affected by the recent downturn of

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the economy I already knew a bit about

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foraging and edibles you take it to a

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whole new level a thousand thanks to you

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for all that great knowledge it was

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empowering when I was in the Navy I went

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through a couple of quick land survival

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classes thank you for being an

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inspiration and for all the work that

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you do I really appreciate the depth and

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detail of the information thank you so

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much much love and respect to you from

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all of us here in the boonies thanks

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again knowledge is power and that power

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brings peace folks thanks for letting us

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help you get back to basics read all of

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the testimonials at of the field comm

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secret on air online and on demand we

3136
02:12:04,080 --> 02:11:51,430
are the gcn radio network

3137
02:12:08,859 --> 02:12:07,030
we have Nick Redfern author of the NASA

3138
02:12:10,810 --> 02:12:08,869
conspiracies Chris O'Brien the co-host

3139
02:12:13,899 --> 02:12:10,820
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

3140
02:12:15,700 --> 02:12:13,909
cast and so the beings seemed demonic

3141
02:12:16,720 --> 02:12:15,710
you have more to say on that before we

3142
02:12:18,669 --> 02:12:16,730
get to the next question

3143
02:12:20,260 --> 02:12:18,679
well you know I mean my view on this

3144
02:12:22,930 --> 02:12:20,270
whole thing like you know when we did me

3145
02:12:25,149 --> 02:12:22,940
into public final events is I think

3146
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:25,159
whether they're extraterrestrial in two

3147
02:12:29,350 --> 02:12:27,770
dimensional crypto terrestrial demonic

3148
02:12:31,270 --> 02:12:29,360
Time Traveller's whatever what this

3149
02:12:33,790 --> 02:12:31,280
tells us is that there's a genuine UFO

3150
02:12:36,250 --> 02:12:33,800
phenomenon that nobody really has a good

3151
02:12:37,930 --> 02:12:36,260
handle on what lies at the heart of it

3152
02:12:39,879 --> 02:12:37,940
beyond the fact that the phenomenon

3153
02:12:42,640 --> 02:12:39,889
exists and I think that's a critical

3154
02:12:44,229 --> 02:12:42,650
issue to remember is that you know as I

3155
02:12:45,640 --> 02:12:44,239
said we think government agencies have

3156
02:12:48,189 --> 02:12:45,650
all the answers and they're hiding the

3157
02:12:50,649 --> 02:12:48,199
truth I think they're hiding significant

3158
02:12:53,379 --> 02:12:50,659
facts about the existence of a genuine

3159
02:12:55,959 --> 02:12:53,389
UFO presence but they may have no real

3160
02:12:57,669 --> 02:12:55,969
idea of the specific origin of the

3161
02:13:00,250 --> 02:12:57,679
phenomenon than we do there may be

3162
02:13:02,319 --> 02:13:00,260
grasping at straws and NASA's or the

3163
02:13:04,660 --> 02:13:02,329
view of certain people in NASA that it's

3164
02:13:06,970 --> 02:13:04,670
an ancient terrestrial race like Mack

3165
02:13:09,970 --> 02:13:06,980
Toni's talked about or that it's demonic

3166
02:13:11,979 --> 02:13:09,980
just typifies the fact that everybody's

3167
02:13:13,990 --> 02:13:11,989
thinking what on earth's going on you

3168
02:13:21,209 --> 02:13:14,000
know who are they now so maybe if we

3169
02:13:26,919 --> 02:13:25,089
okay I kind of finished up you know my

3170
02:13:27,970 --> 02:13:26,929
list of questions and the ones on the

3171
02:13:29,620 --> 02:13:27,980
forum where do you want to take it I'm

3172
02:13:32,379 --> 02:13:29,630
going to take it to the face on Mars

3173
02:13:34,359 --> 02:13:32,389
there you go the objects the artifacts

3174
02:13:36,790 --> 02:13:34,369
and of course one of the guests we've

3175
02:13:38,740 --> 02:13:36,800
never had on the show and I'm not going

3176
02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:38,750
to say whether he won't be on in the

3177
02:13:44,470 --> 02:13:41,690
future he hasn't been on yet that was of

3178
02:13:46,270 --> 02:13:44,480
course our friend mr. Hoagland now the

3179
02:13:47,830 --> 02:13:46,280
first time we had Mac Tony's on the show

3180
02:13:49,569 --> 02:13:47,840
we weren't talking about crypto

3181
02:13:51,339 --> 02:13:49,579
terrestrials we were talking about the

3182
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:51,349
mysteries on Mars so you do touch into

3183
02:13:54,879 --> 02:13:52,610
some of these things like the face on

3184
02:13:57,280 --> 02:13:54,889
Mars any provenance of that in your

3185
02:13:58,870 --> 02:13:57,290
research Nick well you know I mean the

3186
02:14:01,780 --> 02:13:58,880
biggest problem we have him with the

3187
02:14:03,669 --> 02:14:01,790
face of Mars in terms of evaluating it

3188
02:14:06,280 --> 02:14:03,679
is the fact that it's on Mars you know

3189
02:14:08,439 --> 02:14:06,290
which is millions of miles away that's

3190
02:14:10,680 --> 02:14:08,449
the biggest problem we cannot go there

3191
02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:10,690
for at least most of his plans even if

3192
02:14:14,379 --> 02:14:13,010
clandestinely who knows maybe somebody

3193
02:14:17,529 --> 02:14:14,389
has but if they haven't

3194
02:14:20,199 --> 02:14:17,539
then all we're forced to work with these

3195
02:14:23,819 --> 02:14:20,209
photographic evidence and personal

3196
02:14:26,229 --> 02:14:23,829
interpretations theories and ideas and

3197
02:14:29,109 --> 02:14:26,239
there's absolutely no doubt that the

3198
02:14:31,779 --> 02:14:29,119
face on Mars looks intriguing now NASA

3199
02:14:34,270 --> 02:14:31,789
doesn't ignore the issue if you ask now

3200
02:14:36,639 --> 02:14:34,280
so they will quite openly answer

3201
02:14:38,350 --> 02:14:36,649
questions but their view is it's kind of

3202
02:14:40,179 --> 02:14:38,360
like people seeing faces in clouds

3203
02:14:42,310 --> 02:14:40,189
that's their view you know it's the idea

3204
02:14:43,959 --> 02:14:42,320
that all people know what faces look

3205
02:14:45,819 --> 02:14:43,969
like so if you see one in the cloud and

3206
02:14:47,139 --> 02:14:45,829
it looks like a face and so well that

3207
02:14:49,449 --> 02:14:47,149
looks like a face and that's what they

3208
02:14:51,879 --> 02:14:49,459
say with their face on Mars the people

3209
02:14:54,189 --> 02:14:51,889
are just you know putting random imagery

3210
02:14:56,620 --> 02:14:54,199
together in a fashion way it's something

3211
02:14:58,299 --> 02:14:56,630
that they can recognize but when you

3212
02:15:00,370 --> 02:14:58,309
look at the bigger picture and you see

3213
02:15:02,500 --> 02:15:00,380
that very near in the region of Cydonia

3214
02:15:04,899 --> 02:15:02,510
where the face on Mars can be found you

3215
02:15:07,449 --> 02:15:04,909
see well he really look like ruing

3216
02:15:09,819 --> 02:15:07,459
pyramid type structures when the face on

3217
02:15:11,679 --> 02:15:09,829
Mars looks very stinks like whereas the

3218
02:15:13,779 --> 02:15:11,689
Sphinx in Egypt point outwards you know

3219
02:15:16,299 --> 02:15:13,789
the face on Mars points upwards however

3220
02:15:18,129 --> 02:15:16,309
but you know I think there's I think Mac

3221
02:15:20,620 --> 02:15:18,139
Tony so I interviewed extensively for

3222
02:15:22,959 --> 02:15:20,630
the book on this particular chapter made

3223
02:15:25,979 --> 02:15:22,969
an extremely good case for the fact that

3224
02:15:28,239 --> 02:15:25,989
the face is artificial very very ancient

3225
02:15:31,089 --> 02:15:28,249
probably built by you know some

3226
02:15:32,080 --> 02:15:31,099
indigenous Martian species longer

3227
02:15:35,830 --> 02:15:32,090
obviously before

3228
02:15:38,199 --> 02:15:35,840
Mars's atmosphere decayed and finally

3229
02:15:40,870 --> 02:15:38,209
you know just was just destroyed you

3230
02:15:44,049 --> 02:15:40,880
know so basically these are the deserts

3231
02:15:46,569 --> 02:15:44,059
of Barsoom as they sit in the open edgar

3232
02:15:49,359 --> 02:15:46,579
rice burroughs stories exactly and Mac

3233
02:15:51,879 --> 02:15:49,369
did hypothesize under the idea that you

3234
02:15:53,770 --> 02:15:51,889
know when the Martian atmosphere began

3235
02:15:55,810 --> 02:15:53,780
to fragment and disintegrate that

3236
02:15:58,060 --> 02:15:55,820
possibly the last fragments of his

3237
02:16:00,489 --> 02:15:58,070
society could have made the way here you

3238
02:16:02,169 --> 02:16:00,499
know maybe ironically all our stories

3239
02:16:04,750 --> 02:16:02,179
about God's coming to the earth could be

3240
02:16:06,969 --> 02:16:04,760
the last vestiges of some survival

3241
02:16:09,669 --> 02:16:06,979
mission from Mars to here and ironically

3242
02:16:11,409 --> 02:16:09,679
we are actually the Martians you know

3243
02:16:13,179 --> 02:16:11,419
that's what I keep trying to tell people

3244
02:16:15,159 --> 02:16:13,189
they say well you believe in aliens I

3245
02:16:17,709 --> 02:16:15,169
say yeah I believe in areas where the

3246
02:16:19,600 --> 02:16:17,719
aliens sure man are from Venus women are

3247
02:16:21,009 --> 02:16:19,610
from Mars or is it the reverse men are

3248
02:16:23,530 --> 02:16:21,019
from Mars Women are from Venus

3249
02:16:26,080 --> 02:16:23,540
we were probably CD deer who knows

3250
02:16:27,430 --> 02:16:26,090
okay so alright so we have the face on

3251
02:16:30,310 --> 02:16:27,440
Mars that possibility

3252
02:16:33,100 --> 02:16:30,320
what about things going on perhaps on

3253
02:16:34,750 --> 02:16:33,110
the moon strange things well yeah I mean

3254
02:16:37,030 --> 02:16:34,760
one of the more interesting stories was

3255
02:16:40,620 --> 02:16:37,040
a former Air Force guy named Karl Wolfe

3256
02:16:43,299 --> 02:16:40,630
who worked on a NASA program or a

3257
02:16:46,120 --> 02:16:43,309
contract if you like in the mid-60s and

3258
02:16:48,940 --> 02:16:46,130
said that he spoke with a man at one

3259
02:16:51,129 --> 02:16:48,950
particular NASA contractor installation

3260
02:16:54,070 --> 02:16:51,139
where supposedly NASA had photographed

3261
02:16:56,379 --> 02:16:54,080
on the far side of the Moon and what

3262
02:16:58,570 --> 02:16:56,389
looked like you know almost like a base

3263
02:17:00,400 --> 02:16:58,580
like a like a city on the far side of

3264
02:17:03,490 --> 02:17:00,410
the Moon which is you know incredibly

3265
02:17:05,140 --> 02:17:03,500
controversial carl walther stood by

3266
02:17:06,730 --> 02:17:05,150
story you know here's a very credible

3267
02:17:08,379 --> 02:17:06,740
background said you know I spoke with

3268
02:17:10,450 --> 02:17:08,389
this guy and he and he was sort of

3269
02:17:12,490 --> 02:17:10,460
highly concerned about the fact that

3270
02:17:13,990 --> 02:17:12,500
these structures have been photographed

3271
02:17:16,870 --> 02:17:14,000
on the far side of the Moon which seem

3272
02:17:19,390 --> 02:17:16,880
to imply some sort of as I said a base

3273
02:17:22,530 --> 02:17:19,400
or a city that clearly wasn't ours or

3274
02:17:25,330 --> 02:17:22,540
the Russians back in the mid 1960s and

3275
02:17:26,680 --> 02:17:25,340
they've been things that are beliefs you

3276
02:17:28,600 --> 02:17:26,690
know having been photographed on the

3277
02:17:31,180 --> 02:17:28,610
moon but look very very weird and that

3278
02:17:34,060 --> 02:17:31,190
don't seem to be natural rock formations

3279
02:17:35,890 --> 02:17:34,070
and and again things like this it's when

3280
02:17:38,080 --> 02:17:35,900
you see these odd formation be

3281
02:17:41,110 --> 02:17:38,090
incredibly difficult to just write them

3282
02:17:43,600 --> 02:17:41,120
off as anomalies of nature they you know

3283
02:17:47,140 --> 02:17:43,610
when we see so many of them and it leads

3284
02:17:49,480 --> 02:17:47,150
me to believe you know we this far more

3285
02:17:51,700 --> 02:17:49,490
going on in outer space and you know in

3286
02:17:53,799 --> 02:17:51,710
media you're near-earth space as well

3287
02:17:55,959 --> 02:17:53,809
the moon Mars whatever that we just

3288
02:17:57,520 --> 02:17:55,969
simply haven't begun to appreciate or at

3289
02:18:00,040 --> 02:17:57,530
least the general public in the media

3290
02:18:01,720 --> 02:18:00,050
hasn't whether or not somebody in the

3291
02:18:03,850 --> 02:18:01,730
intelligence community and NASA has

3292
02:18:06,010 --> 02:18:03,860
that's a entirely different question

3293
02:18:09,280 --> 02:18:06,020
which i think is a valid question as

3294
02:18:14,110 --> 02:18:09,290
well would it be a reason for a NASA not

3295
02:18:16,120 --> 02:18:14,120
to want to go back to the moon well I

3296
02:18:17,830 --> 02:18:16,130
mean you know one of the theories that's

3297
02:18:19,959 --> 02:18:17,840
been put forward is that we were warned

3298
02:18:21,430 --> 02:18:19,969
off you know and that's sort of that's

3299
02:18:23,320 --> 02:18:21,440
been mentioned in a number of books but

3300
02:18:25,600 --> 02:18:23,330
in such a vague statement that you have

3301
02:18:28,450 --> 02:18:25,610
to wonder how or why would we have been

3302
02:18:30,820 --> 02:18:28,460
warned up I think my personal view is

3303
02:18:33,700 --> 02:18:30,830
that either we didn't go back and there

3304
02:18:35,260 --> 02:18:33,710
was a catastrophic public relations

3305
02:18:37,240 --> 02:18:35,270
blunder where NASA really should have

3306
02:18:39,160 --> 02:18:37,250
capitalized with not just the part

3307
02:18:41,410 --> 02:18:39,170
the major in Congress to say you know

3308
02:18:43,810 --> 02:18:41,420
really fund as well and will do

3309
02:18:45,900 --> 02:18:43,820
fantastic things either catastrophic

3310
02:18:48,669 --> 02:18:45,910
blunder where they didn't do that or

3311
02:18:52,900 --> 02:18:48,679
there has really been some sort of

3312
02:18:55,390 --> 02:18:52,910
secret in tandem space program running

3313
02:18:57,490 --> 02:18:55,400
alongside the mainstream one that really

3314
02:18:59,560 --> 02:18:57,500
has achieved fantastic results that we

3315
02:19:01,330 --> 02:18:59,570
just don't know about well maybe it's a

3316
02:19:03,820 --> 02:19:01,340
bit of a - maybe there was a huge

3317
02:19:06,070 --> 02:19:03,830
blunder in public relations and it just

3318
02:19:08,770 --> 02:19:06,080
NASA didn't capitalize on the moon

3319
02:19:10,629 --> 02:19:08,780
landings but at the same time somebody

3320
02:19:13,259 --> 02:19:10,639
else in conjunction with NASA and

3321
02:19:15,790 --> 02:19:13,269
working with them you know really has

3322
02:19:18,940 --> 02:19:15,800
developed technologies to go further

3323
02:19:21,459 --> 02:19:18,950
than we really realize so why spend

3324
02:19:24,940 --> 02:19:21,469
billions of dollars on technology that

3325
02:19:27,220 --> 02:19:24,950
is basically ancient why deal with alien

3326
02:19:29,860 --> 02:19:27,230
technology if there's new stuff out

3327
02:19:31,750 --> 02:19:29,870
there to deal with well I think part of

3328
02:19:34,629 --> 02:19:31,760
the reason could be that the people are

3329
02:19:36,790 --> 02:19:34,639
working on what some of us might agent

3330
02:19:38,799 --> 02:19:36,800
technologies may actually not know the

3331
02:19:40,270 --> 02:19:38,809
other ones have that have this highly

3332
02:19:43,120 --> 02:19:40,280
advanced technology you know the whole

3333
02:19:47,500 --> 02:19:43,130
issue of compound Martellus ation you

3334
02:19:49,990 --> 02:19:47,510
know the the idea that agency a doesn't

3335
02:19:52,060 --> 02:19:50,000
know what agency B is doing you know the

3336
02:19:54,400 --> 02:19:52,070
notion that just because somebody's

3337
02:19:58,000 --> 02:19:54,410
still working with with rocket based

3338
02:19:59,350 --> 02:19:58,010
technology and fossil fuels they may not

3339
02:20:01,240 --> 02:19:59,360
be doing that as a cover they made

3340
02:20:02,920 --> 02:20:01,250
legitimately not realize that somebody

3341
02:20:04,990 --> 02:20:02,930
else he's working with truly

3342
02:20:07,330 --> 02:20:05,000
groundbreaking technologies that make

3343
02:20:11,050 --> 02:20:07,340
you know their technology look like

3344
02:20:12,760 --> 02:20:11,060
somebody whacking a rock against a stone

3345
02:20:15,940 --> 02:20:12,770
to try and get a bit of fire going you

3346
02:20:19,120 --> 02:20:15,950
know in a like a case and type scenario

3347
02:20:21,340 --> 02:20:19,130
I think I don't think necessarily NASA's

3348
02:20:23,170 --> 02:20:21,350
current space is a secret space program

3349
02:20:25,270 --> 02:20:23,180
I don't necessarily think the current

3350
02:20:27,160 --> 02:20:25,280
space program the visible one is a cover

3351
02:20:30,130 --> 02:20:27,170
story it may be the people are working

3352
02:20:32,560 --> 02:20:30,140
on the space shuttle programs etc just

3353
02:20:35,830 --> 02:20:32,570
don't know that there's this far more

3354
02:20:38,080 --> 02:20:35,840
advanced program in existence wouldn't

3355
02:20:40,270 --> 02:20:38,090
they suspect I mean how do you keep that

3356
02:20:42,550 --> 02:20:40,280
secret I mean you have to have private

3357
02:20:44,410 --> 02:20:42,560
industry building the spaceships and

3358
02:20:47,530 --> 02:20:44,420
that's a big question and maybe we have

3359
02:20:49,810 --> 02:20:47,540
to explore that how do you take a secret

3360
02:20:50,370 --> 02:20:49,820
space program I mean you know flying spy

3361
02:20:51,810 --> 02:20:50,380
saddle

3362
02:20:53,969 --> 02:20:51,820
it's and stuff like that we know that's

3363
02:20:56,639 --> 02:20:53,979
going on I mean more advanced

3364
02:20:59,400 --> 02:20:56,649
exploration with more advanced aircraft

3365
02:21:02,250 --> 02:20:59,410
stuff that will really make your socks

3366
02:21:06,090 --> 02:21:02,260
fly off you know we have Nick Redfern

3367
02:21:07,920 --> 02:21:06,100
he's author of the NASA conspiracies

3368
02:21:10,650 --> 02:21:07,930
where we explore the good bad and ugly

3369
02:21:12,900 --> 02:21:10,660
of the various conspiracies by the way

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neighbors check out our forms formed up

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3374
02:21:24,900 --> 02:21:21,790
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02:21:28,140 --> 02:21:24,910
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3376
02:21:37,230 --> 02:21:28,150
co-host I'm gene Steinberg you're in

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[Music]

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install and uses 128 bit encryption for

3462
02:25:24,849 --> 02:25:22,459
your protection

3463
02:25:27,010 --> 02:25:24,859
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3464
02:25:29,109 --> 02:25:27,020
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3465
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02:25:34,120 --> 02:25:31,670
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3467
02:25:36,189 --> 02:25:34,130
identity and your freedom with anonymous

3468
02:25:40,109 --> 02:25:36,199
internet access from Patriot internet

3469
02:25:42,330 --> 02:25:40,119
com visit patriot internet comm today

3470
02:25:44,800 --> 02:25:42,340
America's number one source for

3471
02:25:45,760 --> 02:25:44,810
independent talk retail for over a

3472
02:25:51,279 --> 02:25:45,770
decade

3473
02:25:54,069 --> 02:25:51,289
we are the gcn radio network hi this is

3474
02:25:56,679 --> 02:25:54,079
Don Ecker and you are tuned in to the

3475
02:25:58,679 --> 02:25:56,689
para cast let me tell you what you're

3476
02:26:02,160 --> 02:25:58,689
gonna hear stuff here that

3477
02:26:04,739 --> 02:26:02,170
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

3478
02:26:08,130 --> 02:26:04,749
that George snoring Nick Redfern

3479
02:26:09,599 --> 02:26:08,140
speaking fast spare cast right okay

3480
02:26:11,550 --> 02:26:09,609
right right okay

3481
02:26:13,099 --> 02:26:11,560
these three guy on TV by the way I think

3482
02:26:15,630 --> 02:26:13,109
he did commercials for Federal Express

3483
02:26:18,050 --> 02:26:15,640
yeah and he had to talk very fast I

3484
02:26:20,639 --> 02:26:18,060
think he later became a politician but

3485
02:26:22,920 --> 02:26:20,649
that's another story and probably not

3486
02:26:24,809 --> 02:26:22,930
true Chris O'Brien's a co-host I'm Jean

3487
02:26:26,609 --> 02:26:24,819
Steinberg we're in the power cast so I

3488
02:26:29,010 --> 02:26:26,619
guess we're talking about here the

3489
02:26:31,949 --> 02:26:29,020
possibility of a top secret space

3490
02:26:35,550 --> 02:26:31,959
program and about keeping all this a

3491
02:26:36,719 --> 02:26:35,560
secret from even the public NASA yeah I

3492
02:26:40,319 --> 02:26:36,729
think the important thing to remember

3493
02:26:42,750 --> 02:26:40,329
when it comes to whether or not NASA or

3494
02:26:45,300 --> 02:26:42,760
any agency could hide all this from the

3495
02:26:48,179 --> 02:26:45,310
general public is if you go back to for

3496
02:26:50,489 --> 02:26:48,189
example the moon landings in 69 to 72

3497
02:26:53,250 --> 02:26:50,499
you know you had this huge Apollo

3498
02:26:55,529 --> 02:26:53,260
spacecraft which is you know the rocky

3499
02:26:58,109 --> 02:26:55,539
was like the size of a skyscraper and

3500
02:27:00,479 --> 02:26:58,119
yet the actual craft that landed on the

3501
02:27:02,910 --> 02:27:00,489
moon was just a very tip you know this

3502
02:27:04,979 --> 02:27:02,920
houmous tiny capsule with three

3503
02:27:07,559 --> 02:27:04,989
astronauts crammed into it like sardines

3504
02:27:09,569 --> 02:27:07,569
in a can and the lunar module

3505
02:27:12,210 --> 02:27:09,579
you know the whole couple hundred feet

3506
02:27:14,160 --> 02:27:12,220
of the rest it was just fuel well if

3507
02:27:16,109 --> 02:27:14,170
today we've developed something that

3508
02:27:18,000 --> 02:27:16,119
doesn't require this huge rocket for

3509
02:27:20,849 --> 02:27:18,010
fuel you could actually have something

3510
02:27:22,800 --> 02:27:20,859
that's like the size of the moon lander

3511
02:27:23,689 --> 02:27:22,810
which is about 20 feet and if that is

3512
02:27:25,949 --> 02:27:23,699
the case

3513
02:27:26,880 --> 02:27:25,959
potentially we could be flying things to

3514
02:27:30,239 --> 02:27:26,890
the moon on Mars

3515
02:27:32,010 --> 02:27:30,249
2030 feet in size that nobody would ever

3516
02:27:33,149 --> 02:27:32,020
say taken off you know that's the whole

3517
02:27:34,920 --> 02:27:33,159
thing with the Apollo missions you

3518
02:27:38,639 --> 02:27:34,930
couldn't hide them because the craft was

3519
02:27:40,620 --> 02:27:38,649
such a huge humongous thing you know and

3520
02:27:42,989 --> 02:27:40,630
I think that's the important thing we

3521
02:27:45,750 --> 02:27:42,999
could be flying stuff from area 51 a 50

3522
02:27:47,580 --> 02:27:45,760
foot diameter craft hypothetically using

3523
02:27:51,090 --> 02:27:47,590
some highly advanced propulsion system

3524
02:27:52,290 --> 02:27:51,100
that would be you know what necessarily

3525
02:27:54,029 --> 02:27:52,300
wouldn't need to have lights on it

3526
02:27:55,979 --> 02:27:54,039
wouldn't be need to be illuminated it

3527
02:27:57,479 --> 02:27:55,989
would take off at night no wonder we see

3528
02:28:00,149 --> 02:27:57,489
taking off and it would just you know

3529
02:28:02,760 --> 02:28:00,159
leave the atmosphere and head to point a

3530
02:28:05,189 --> 02:28:02,770
B or C and so it would be very easy to

3531
02:28:06,779 --> 02:28:05,199
hide the fact you know it's like no one

3532
02:28:09,290 --> 02:28:06,789
could hide a space shuttle liftoff

3533
02:28:11,849 --> 02:28:09,300
because it's such a huge unwieldly

3534
02:28:12,479 --> 02:28:11,859
gigantic machine not just a shuttle but

3535
02:28:20,369 --> 02:28:12,489
the

3536
02:28:22,649 --> 02:28:20,379
to but if you've got something that's

3537
02:28:24,809 --> 02:28:22,659
the size of like a Greyhound bus that

3538
02:28:26,130 --> 02:28:24,819
could travel to Mars I was gonna say it

3539
02:28:28,499 --> 02:28:26,140
you know he's actually wouldn't

3540
02:28:31,050 --> 02:28:28,509
ironically be that difficult to hide all

3541
02:28:32,869 --> 02:28:31,060
right so maybe there could be a secret

3542
02:28:35,699 --> 02:28:32,879
space program here that's genuinely

3543
02:28:37,260 --> 02:28:35,709
interesting insane scenario and I I

3544
02:28:39,539 --> 02:28:37,270
wouldn't you know I wouldn't fall down

3545
02:28:41,489 --> 02:28:39,549
in a dead faint if he was one day proven

3546
02:28:43,829 --> 02:28:41,499
to be real but you know with all these

3547
02:28:46,199 --> 02:28:43,839
mysteries how the heck do you prove any

3548
02:28:48,779 --> 02:28:46,209
of it well that's the big question I

3549
02:28:51,719 --> 02:28:48,789
mean you know it's like any aspect of

3550
02:28:54,090 --> 02:28:51,729
the whole UFO phenomenon it's clear from

3551
02:28:56,219 --> 02:28:54,100
government records witness testimony

3552
02:28:57,599 --> 02:28:56,229
military people coming forward now

3553
02:28:59,999 --> 02:28:57,609
they're in their sixties seventies or

3554
02:29:02,519 --> 02:29:00,009
eighties but clearly something's going

3555
02:29:04,199 --> 02:29:02,529
on what we don't have unfortunately you

3556
02:29:06,899 --> 02:29:04,209
know and I'll be the first committee

3557
02:29:09,329 --> 02:29:06,909
doesn't help like my own case but I will

3558
02:29:12,210 --> 02:29:09,339
be honest enough to admit we don't have

3559
02:29:14,849 --> 02:29:12,220
that definitive smoking gun that will

3560
02:29:17,369 --> 02:29:14,859
prove this or that is going on and

3561
02:29:20,159 --> 02:29:17,379
that's what we're striving to find now

3562
02:29:21,809 --> 02:29:20,169
whether they're in a smoking gun or even

3563
02:29:24,319 --> 02:29:21,819
just the government suspects that

3564
02:29:27,239 --> 02:29:24,329
certain things are going on I'm not sure

3565
02:29:30,119 --> 02:29:27,249
clearly something is you know the big

3566
02:29:31,859 --> 02:29:30,129
question is how we access that so-called

3567
02:29:33,960 --> 02:29:31,869
black box where the material might be

3568
02:29:35,460 --> 02:29:33,970
hidden you know the ironic thing is that

3569
02:29:37,260 --> 02:29:35,470
the one person who may have come closer

3570
02:29:39,869 --> 02:29:37,270
than anybody else in recent years he's

3571
02:29:41,579 --> 02:29:39,879
Gary McKinnon and as a result of he's

3572
02:29:43,590 --> 02:29:41,589
sort of penetration of trying to find

3573
02:29:45,869 --> 02:29:43,600
the truth he now faces extradition to

3574
02:29:48,809 --> 02:29:45,879
the US and seventy years in jail you

3575
02:29:51,179 --> 02:29:48,819
know that's that's the harsh reality of

3576
02:29:54,510 --> 02:29:51,189
what happens when you try and access the

3577
02:29:55,590 --> 02:29:54,520
black box that we cannot access publicly

3578
02:29:58,199 --> 02:29:55,600
and legitimately

3579
02:29:59,760 --> 02:29:58,209
so basically if you find out the truth

3580
02:30:01,710 --> 02:29:59,770
they'll come after you what's happening

3581
02:30:03,719 --> 02:30:01,720
was Gary McKinnon by the way they're

3582
02:30:05,880 --> 02:30:03,729
still trying to extradite him right yeah

3583
02:30:08,460 --> 02:30:05,890
he's still the u.s. he's still trying to

3584
02:30:10,710 --> 02:30:08,470
extradite him because you know of the

3585
02:30:12,510 --> 02:30:10,720
whole it not so much because of the UFO

3586
02:30:14,999 --> 02:30:12,520
angle I mean they don't talk about that

3587
02:30:17,010 --> 02:30:15,009
so much it's more along the lines of you

3588
02:30:20,099 --> 02:30:17,020
know he penetrated our computer systems

3589
02:30:21,779 --> 02:30:20,109
he according to you know the military

3590
02:30:24,389 --> 02:30:21,789
and NASA you actually affected and

3591
02:30:25,921 --> 02:30:24,399
adversely affected the computer systems

3592
02:30:28,921 --> 02:30:25,931
to where some of them were rendered

3593
02:30:31,111 --> 02:30:28,931
inoperable or at least you know unusable

3594
02:30:33,390 --> 02:30:31,121
for a while and they're very effective

3595
02:30:36,060 --> 02:30:33,400
hacking and also he left a number of

3596
02:30:38,251 --> 02:30:36,070
statements relative to you know people

3597
02:30:40,951 --> 02:30:38,261
uh conspiracy theories concerning 9/11

3598
02:30:43,711 --> 02:30:40,961
and war on terror that they came asking

3599
02:30:46,711 --> 02:30:43,721
I think I think we with McKinnon you

3600
02:30:48,871 --> 02:30:46,721
know it's like on the one hand it would

3601
02:30:50,581 --> 02:30:48,881
be ridiculous for somebody to think they

3602
02:30:51,991 --> 02:30:50,591
could hack into the government's you

3603
02:30:53,671 --> 02:30:52,001
know classified systems of any

3604
02:30:55,890 --> 02:30:53,681
government and get away with it and of

3605
02:30:58,381 --> 02:30:55,900
course he didn't but what I also think

3606
02:31:01,531 --> 02:30:58,391
is I actually don't believe that the

3607
02:31:04,440 --> 02:31:01,541
McKinnon sentence if he's sentenced will

3608
02:31:07,291 --> 02:31:04,450
reflect the nature of his crime I think

3609
02:31:08,461 --> 02:31:07,301
what will happen is that he it's

3610
02:31:11,190 --> 02:31:08,471
entirely possible he could have the

3611
02:31:13,921 --> 02:31:11,200
entire book thrown at him and given the

3612
02:31:16,020 --> 02:31:13,931
worst possible treatment as a means to

3613
02:31:17,881 --> 02:31:16,030
say to everybody else you know you try

3614
02:31:19,470 --> 02:31:17,891
something similar big you're going to

3615
02:31:21,241 --> 02:31:19,480
get the same as McKinnon so in other

3616
02:31:23,390 --> 02:31:21,251
words and the killin sentence may not

3617
02:31:26,491 --> 02:31:23,400
reflect his crime it may actually be

3618
02:31:28,591 --> 02:31:26,501
reflects a way of warning everybody else

3619
02:31:30,781 --> 02:31:28,601
you do this you're gonna get seventy

3620
02:31:32,520 --> 02:31:30,791
years or whatever but equally you know

3621
02:31:34,621 --> 02:31:32,530
if from the kidneys brought to the US

3622
02:31:36,390 --> 02:31:34,631
and to stand trial it's entirely

3623
02:31:38,401 --> 02:31:36,400
possible that an entire Tanner worms

3624
02:31:39,571 --> 02:31:38,411
could be open up because by McKinnon's

3625
02:31:41,701 --> 02:31:39,581
old admission a lot of people forget

3626
02:31:43,921 --> 02:31:41,711
this the only reason he had what he

3627
02:31:46,440 --> 02:31:43,931
actually he hacked the Johnson Space

3628
02:31:48,600 --> 02:31:46,450
Center in Houston and he actually hacks

3629
02:31:50,281 --> 02:31:48,610
one particular building and the reason

3630
02:31:53,011 --> 02:31:50,291
he did this was because a woman named

3631
02:31:56,011 --> 02:31:53,021
Donna hare who worked for a NASA

3632
02:31:58,381 --> 02:31:56,021
contractor said she had seen in this

3633
02:32:00,961 --> 02:31:58,391
particular building in the Johnson Space

3634
02:32:03,571 --> 02:32:00,971
Center evidence where somebody within

3635
02:32:05,791 --> 02:32:03,581
NASA was literally like airbrushing

3636
02:32:08,940 --> 02:32:05,801
photographs NASA photographs before

3637
02:32:12,121 --> 02:32:08,950
public release to airbrush anomalies

3638
02:32:14,011 --> 02:32:12,131
like UFOs when the King heard from Donna

3639
02:32:16,651 --> 02:32:14,021
Harris testimony that it was this

3640
02:32:18,841 --> 02:32:16,661
particular branch of the agency in

3641
02:32:21,001 --> 02:32:18,851
Houston it was this particular building

3642
02:32:22,861 --> 02:32:21,011
he decided to hack that particular

3643
02:32:25,591 --> 02:32:22,871
building but I actually think there's a

3644
02:32:27,421 --> 02:32:25,601
very good argument where if MacKinnon is

3645
02:32:29,640 --> 02:32:27,431
brought to the US his lawyers could

3646
02:32:32,520 --> 02:32:29,650
legitimately say well they only went

3647
02:32:34,381 --> 02:32:32,530
lucky and because a NASA contractor

3648
02:32:36,241 --> 02:32:34,391
actually spilled the beans I'm we're to

3649
02:32:37,980 --> 02:32:36,251
go looking you know it's all where does

3650
02:32:39,819 --> 02:32:37,990
the buck stop does it start with NASA

3651
02:32:41,739 --> 02:32:39,829
does it start with an

3652
02:32:44,249 --> 02:32:41,749
so whistleblower Don a half the same

3653
02:32:46,659 --> 02:32:44,259
dishes weather where I saw evidence of

3654
02:32:49,449 --> 02:32:46,669
airbrushing the NASA pictures or does it

3655
02:32:51,129 --> 02:32:49,459
stop with McKinnon the following up on

3656
02:32:53,439 --> 02:32:51,139
what somebody you know a government

3657
02:32:55,959 --> 02:32:53,449
contractor subcontractor said was going

3658
02:32:59,169 --> 02:32:55,969
on you know you could open earth or any

3659
02:33:01,119 --> 02:32:59,179
kind of worms of a very intricate legal

3660
02:33:03,819 --> 02:33:01,129
nature well I don't know that it's gonna

3661
02:33:06,849 --> 02:33:03,829
get resolved anytime soon is there any

3662
02:33:09,579 --> 02:33:06,859
new word on what the extradition hearing

3663
02:33:12,869 --> 02:33:09,589
is all about where it stands yeah well

3664
02:33:14,979 --> 02:33:12,879
right now it's still the case of where

3665
02:33:17,249 --> 02:33:14,989
MacKinnon's lawyers are saying you know

3666
02:33:18,999 --> 02:33:17,259
because he has Asperger's syndrome

3667
02:33:20,769 --> 02:33:19,009
psychological condition that he

3668
02:33:22,179 --> 02:33:20,779
shouldn't be standing trial anyway it's

3669
02:33:23,949 --> 02:33:22,189
not his fault that he were in hacking

3670
02:33:26,229 --> 02:33:23,959
it's a you know side effect of his

3671
02:33:29,109 --> 02:33:26,239
condition and the u.s. is saying no you

3672
02:33:30,819 --> 02:33:29,119
know this guy's going to he's going to

3673
02:33:33,819 --> 02:33:30,829
come to trial and we're gonna plaster

3674
02:33:36,429 --> 02:33:33,829
Ursula the law now you know the one

3675
02:33:38,349 --> 02:33:36,439
thing I would say is what everybody does

3676
02:33:40,479 --> 02:33:38,359
admit is that MacKinnon's and tire

3677
02:33:42,729 --> 02:33:40,489
actions were undertaken from within the

3678
02:33:44,699 --> 02:33:42,739
British Isles from within you know

3679
02:33:49,599 --> 02:33:44,709
British computer system a British

3680
02:33:51,729 --> 02:33:49,609
internet server and yes NASA but you

3681
02:33:54,369 --> 02:33:51,739
know it's like it's basically a case of

3682
02:33:55,719 --> 02:33:54,379
well McKinnon hack NASA so the Americans

3683
02:33:57,999 --> 02:33:55,729
are going to say we're bringing any

3684
02:34:00,309 --> 02:33:58,009
media like it or not you know let's say

3685
02:34:03,159 --> 02:34:00,319
for example somebody in the u.s. today

3686
02:34:05,800 --> 02:34:03,169
hacked a Chinese missile system you know

3687
02:34:07,329 --> 02:34:05,810
the Chinese military and the Chinese

3688
02:34:08,829 --> 02:34:07,339
said all we're gonna bring this person

3689
02:34:09,669 --> 02:34:08,839
to China for trial there would be

3690
02:34:11,469 --> 02:34:09,679
outrage

3691
02:34:13,599 --> 02:34:11,479
you know what I mean and it's the same

3692
02:34:15,639 --> 02:34:13,609
thing everybody seems to agree in

3693
02:34:17,949 --> 02:34:15,649
Britain at least that MacKinnon if he

3694
02:34:19,989 --> 02:34:17,959
goes to trial should stand trial in

3695
02:34:22,359 --> 02:34:19,999
England his crime was committed in

3696
02:34:25,329 --> 02:34:22,369
England everything he did was in England

3697
02:34:28,089 --> 02:34:25,339
you know it's should he not stand trial

3698
02:34:31,869 --> 02:34:28,099
in England so basically the question of

3699
02:34:34,209 --> 02:34:31,879
jurisdiction here has it that if he

3700
02:34:37,329 --> 02:34:34,219
basically did this through British

3701
02:34:37,839 --> 02:34:37,339
computers it happens there he can't come

3702
02:34:39,189 --> 02:34:37,849
here

3703
02:34:41,439 --> 02:34:39,199
but I guess this is something that could

3704
02:34:43,179 --> 02:34:41,449
be dragging on for years right oh yeah I

3705
02:34:45,039 --> 02:34:43,189
mean it's gone on now for several years

3706
02:34:48,099 --> 02:34:45,049
I mean it's gone right to the equivalent

3707
02:34:50,199 --> 02:34:48,109
of you know the the Prime Minister you

3708
02:34:52,929 --> 02:34:50,209
know the equivalent to the US president

3709
02:34:53,590 --> 02:34:52,939
of you know under lines of his lawyers

3710
02:34:55,450 --> 02:34:53,600
saying well you know

3711
02:34:58,269 --> 02:34:55,460
this Asperger's syndrome you know it's

3712
02:35:00,250 --> 02:34:58,279
not his fault and and and then putting

3713
02:35:02,530 --> 02:35:00,260
back the extradition even further mean

3714
02:35:04,359 --> 02:35:02,540
further and getting statements from

3715
02:35:05,920 --> 02:35:04,369
doctors and psychiatrists and

3716
02:35:07,840 --> 02:35:05,930
psychologists saying you know this man

3717
02:35:10,359 --> 02:35:07,850
is not fit to stand trial because he's

3718
02:35:12,099 --> 02:35:10,369
not you know they're over a regular

3719
02:35:14,410 --> 02:35:12,109
minds thank you and hope I'll just give

3720
02:35:16,570 --> 02:35:14,420
it up after ten years of this I think

3721
02:35:17,889 --> 02:35:16,580
that could be the case so I think one of

3722
02:35:20,080 --> 02:35:17,899
the reasons one of the prime reasons

3723
02:35:22,870 --> 02:35:20,090
that might happen could be because of

3724
02:35:25,450 --> 02:35:22,880
the can of worms that could be open kin

3725
02:35:27,309 --> 02:35:25,460
and not only goes to trial but you know

3726
02:35:28,719 --> 02:35:27,319
take to the stand I'll tell you what

3727
02:35:31,030 --> 02:35:28,729
this is something that might even be

3728
02:35:33,820 --> 02:35:31,040
worth a full show neighbors you can find

3729
02:35:36,700 --> 02:35:33,830
more of Nick stuff at Nick Redfern comm

3730
02:35:39,609 --> 02:35:36,710
and of course with Chris O'Brien you'll

3731
02:35:42,280 --> 02:35:39,619
check out our strange planet.com

3732
02:35:44,559 --> 02:35:42,290
because it is a strange planet the book

3733
02:35:47,380 --> 02:35:44,569
is called the NASA conspiracies the

3734
02:35:49,599 --> 02:35:47,390
author is Nick Redfern Chris O'Brien was

3735
02:35:52,389 --> 02:35:49,609
my co-host this is the para cast I'm

3736
02:35:55,269 --> 02:35:52,399
gene Steinberg a special special thank

3737
02:35:58,059 --> 02:35:55,279
you for our friend Nick Redfern for

3738
02:36:03,730 --> 02:35:58,069
joining us on this week's show great

3739
02:36:09,080 --> 02:36:06,680
there is a copy of the presentation of

3740
02:36:11,410 --> 02:36:09,090
making the impossible incorporated tune

3741
02:36:13,140 --> 02:36:11,420
in next week for a new adventure and a